SimForums.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > Flight One Partner Forums > Reality XP - Unofficial Forum
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - GNS WAAS Unlimited, released, and updated
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Forum LockedGNS WAAS Unlimited, released, and updated

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GNS WAAS Unlimited, released, and updated
    Posted: July-01-2009 at 9:57am
Dear all,

we have now released our new product: GNS WAAS Unlimited Expansion Pack!

read the press release here

GNS WAAS Unlimited, an expansion pack requiring the purchase of the GNS 430XP WAAS and/or the GNS 530XP WAAS, offers unlimited possibilities: dual GNS, cross fill, Traffic and Collision Avoidance Device (TCAD).

Update: 01JUL09

The GNS WAAS Unlimited installer failed to update the GNS WAAS Config application for our customers having purchased the first release of our GNS WAAS. Incidently, those customers never have had the GNS WAAS Config updated with all the GNS WAAS updates.

We have therefore updated the GNS WAAS Unlimited and you can download and reinstall it again over your existing installation. Alternatively, you can delete your GNS WAAS Config 9/X.exe programs from your hard drive, and install again to have the newer ones installed properly.

We are also updating the GNS WAAS 430/530 installers and will post a note in the "updates" page once uploaded:

http://www.reality-xp.com/support/updates/index.html

Jean-Luc



Jean-Luc
Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2009 at 12:30pm
Considering the R&D of well over two years and being such a niche product I didn't find the price out of touch with reality.  Even in RW aviation there are only a few aircraft in the greater Portland area I can rent equipped with dual Garmins.  The ability to learn how to use the feature set of a dual Garmin equipped aircraft that rents for $150/hr+ on the sim makes this quite a bargain.  There is less and less that separates the hobby sim from the real world training sim and it is quite unrealistic to expect the hobby pricing to remain when the work going into these addons is twenty or more times what it took to do a FS2002 aircraft or GPS/avionics add-on.  I know many of these developers and I can tell you for a fact they are making less money and working much harder than ever before.
Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2009 at 12:56pm
Really Dr. Gard?  I'm flying aircraft in a much more expensive market, San Diego, and usually fly a dual 430 equipped Archer for around $120/hr wet... and that's up due to the cost of fuel.  I doubt this is any bargain... Garmin laid the foundation with the GNS430 Trainer... so, how is this worth $99.95?

My question is, who is this product marketed to?


Mark
Back to Top
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2009 at 5:43pm
Please note the GNS WAAS Unlimited product is not a professional simulation product. The professional license for our GNS WAAS 430/530 retails at a much higher premium (volume discount available).

GNS WAAS Unlimited is a pro-summer product for personal training needs. Alternatives on the market exist:

* Elite Simulation + Hardware (mandatory for the GNS) retailing for $199+$549=$748 (although you only get 1 GNS in this configuration)

* GNS Courses like this one: http://www.gleim.com/aviation/products.php?cat=G530#Online for $99

* Sporty's GNS Training pack: http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=19&Product_ID=11303 retailing for $395.

* Jeppesen Advanced Garmin GNS 430/530 Software http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=9743&DID=19 retailing for $125.95


Like it is written on our product page, unlike higher priced Garmin GNS CBT cd-roms, GNS Training Books and fuel burning logged time flying, GNS WAAS Unlimited brings higher training value for our customers, for a fraction of the price, leveraging our RealTime Training™ solutions.

Reality XP RealTime Training™ was created to challenge the current limits of simulation, training techniques and capabilities, in order to meet the needs of industries and markets that face the challenges with knowledge retention required for the performance of critical tasks.

Reality XP is making these powerful components available for solutions beyond entertainment in a very consistent move toward using serious games as training tools.

I perfectly understand some of the posters in this thread don't see enough value in this product at this price point for them. This only means this product is not for them. Others see a high value in this product at this price point. This is the perfect product for them.

Jean-Luc



Jean-Luc
Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2009 at 5:55pm

Originally posted by SDFlyer SDFlyer wrote:

Really Dr. Gard?  I'm flying aircraft in a much more expensive market, San Diego, and usually fly a dual 430 equipped Archer for around $120/hr wet... and that's up due to the cost of fuel.  I doubt this is any bargain... Garmin laid the foundation with the GNS430 Trainer... so, how is this worth $99.95?

My question is, who is this product marketed to?


I trained in San Diego when I lived there in the 80's and as far as aviation costs are concerned San Diego and Portland area are not all that different.  There are plentiful rental aircraft with a single Garmin 430's up here, finding newer aircraft with dual Garmins though is more rare.  Had one of the FBO's an Archer with dual Garmins it probably would rent wet for the 120/hr but you rent what you can find.

Getting back to the RXP product itself this is made available to the general simming public where realism might give bragging rights but in no means is necessary for hobby use.  Turn the card and start dealing with real world avionics and cockpit procedural training and a real pilot would not and should never train with something that is not button for button, knob for knob realistic in operation.  Getting into a sticky situation with crossed learning patterns and you just made a bad situation worse.  And put bluntly if you can afford $120/hr for an Archer you can afford an extra $100 for the RXP add-on which gives unlimited hours.  The ten plus hours saved from familiarizing yourself in the cockpit pays for it ten times!

Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
lawndart View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: July-02-2006
Points: 63
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lawndart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2009 at 8:30pm

Originally posted by SDFlyer SDFlyer wrote:

My question is, who is this product marketed to?

The old product was most certainly aimed at a wider audience than this one.  I'd have to agree with Jean-Luc...

Originally posted by Reality XP Reality XP wrote:

I perfectly understand some of the posters in this thread don't see enough value in this product at this price point for them. This only means this product is not for them. Others see a high value in this product at this price point. This is the perfect product for them.

Jean-Luc

Back to Top
Brian W Keske View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: December-24-2005
Points: 1300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian W Keske Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-02-2009 at 10:03pm
I guess I look at this a bit differently.

I will purchase this product, but right now (being self-employed) need to wait for some checks to come in. But here is what many may want to look at:

I have many third party aircraft, and I log all my aircraft broken down into hours flown. I do this for a variety of reasons, but mostly to 'force' myself into flying third party products which I've paid for, thus try to spread my time around in each.

the group of aircraft I have the most time in (in FSX) are my three ES Cirrus aircraft, with a total of 91 hours. The three cost me roughly $90. So, I have essentially paid $1 per hour for the pleasure.

I have the Carenado Mooney with 65 hours, it cost me $27. So, I have essentially paid  $.42 per hour for the pleasure.

I also have aircraft I have paid $30+/- for that I have only flown 10-20 hours. So, I have essentially paid $2 per hour for the pleasure.

I have some that I have paid $20-30 on and have under 10 hours in them. Some are costing me thus far in excess of $4 per hour for my pleasure.

Now, I have RXP units in most all these aircraft. I purchased both the 430/530 last year about this time. I would imagine I have flown 500 hours+/- with the new WAAS units in FSX. So, roughly, I have essentially paid $0.16 per hour for my pleasure. If I purchase this package, undoubtedly, I will put in excess of 500 hours of use 'into' them. Again, that will cost me about $0.18 per hour for the pleasure.

Thus, the RXP products have actually provided my with more hours of pleasure per hourly cost than any of my individual aircraft. In addition, I guess I could say some aircraft that cost me in excess of $40, and have only flown for 10-20 hours have been a bad deal? No, I cannot say that, that was my choice. It is my fault if I have not used them, so they are neither poor products, or too expensive. It is simply I may not getting the value out of them as I do with other products. I know I will get value out of this package when I purchase it, as I use my RXP stuff almost constantly.

I encourage you to identify how much value you are getting out of the aircraft you have paid a nice sum of money on, and scenery packages, and ask yourself, is that $40 aircraft I have flown very little a better deal than this package that may provide me literally hundreds of hours of pleasure? What is the better value?


Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2009 at 2:22am
Originally posted by Brian W Keske Brian W Keske wrote:

I guess I look at this a bit differently.

I will purchase this product, but right now (being self-employed) need to wait for some checks to come in. But here is what many may want to look at:

I have many third party aircraft, and I log all my aircraft broken down into hours flown. I do this for a variety of reasons, but mostly to 'force' myself into flying third party products which I've paid for, thus try to spread my time around in each.

the group of aircraft I have the most time in (in FSX) are my three ES Cirrus aircraft, with a total of 91 hours. The three cost me roughly $90. So, I have essentially paid $1 per hour for the pleasure.

I have the Carenado Mooney with 65 hours, it cost me $27. So, I have essentially paid  $.42 per hour for the pleasure.

I also have aircraft I have paid $30+/- for that I have only flown 10-20 hours. So, I have essentially paid $2 per hour for the pleasure.

I have some that I have paid $20-30 on and have under 10 hours in them. Some are costing me thus far in excess of $4 per hour for my pleasure.

Now, I have RXP units in most all these aircraft. I purchased both the 430/530 last year about this time. I would imagine I have flown 500 hours+/- with the new WAAS units in FSX. So, roughly, I have essentially paid $0.16 per hour for my pleasure. If I purchase this package, undoubtedly, I will put in excess of 500 hours of use 'into' them. Again, that will cost me about $0.18 per hour for the pleasure.

Thus, the RXP products have actually provided my with more hours of pleasure per hourly cost than any of my individual aircraft. In addition, I guess I could say some aircraft that cost me in excess of $40, and have only flown for 10-20 hours have been a bad deal? No, I cannot say that, that was my choice. It is my fault if I have not used them, so they are neither poor products, or too expensive. It is simply I may not getting the value out of them as I do with other products. I know I will get value out of this package when I purchase it, as I use my RXP stuff almost constantly.

I encourage you to identify how much value you are getting out of the aircraft you have paid a nice sum of money on, and scenery packages, and ask yourself, is that $40 aircraft I have flown very little a better deal than this package that may provide me literally hundreds of hours of pleasure? What is the better value?


Yeah, eventually, based on this math, you'll end up with a free product if you play long enough.
Mark
Back to Top
Brian W Keske View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: December-24-2005
Points: 1300
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian W Keske Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2009 at 2:54am
No, it will never be free.

The point is what value you get for the money you spend. That is your choice. It really is not hard to figure out.

In addition, I do not 'play' with FS, if I did, I would have no use for RXP products.
Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2009 at 9:07am

Originally posted by SDFlyer SDFlyer wrote:

Originally posted by zfehr zfehr wrote:

Getting into a sticky situation with crossed learning patterns and you just made a bad situation worse.  And put bluntly if you can afford $120/hr for an Archer you can afford an extra $100 for the RXP add-on which gives unlimited hours.  The ten plus hours saved from familiarizing yourself in the cockpit pays for it ten times!


I'd rather just get the manual out, and sit in the cockpit for free.  Besides, I'd rather pay that $120/hr and log it, then pay $100 for something that only adds TCAS and crossfill.  Perhaps I'm missing something, but the GNS trainers cover the vast majority of what you'll find in a real life 430 or 530.  I still am reading this as $100 = you get TCAS and crossfill.

And that's your choice which you can do.  If you only have the $100 to spend and are working on building your time spend it in the plane by all means.  Yes, this is an expensive add on for some, if having that added functionality is something useful you will buy it, if not don't.

Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2009 at 10:46am

Although I know Jean Luc I wasn't directly involved in the development of this product.  I do know the group on the professional side of this development though and the R&D getting two instances of the new Garmin trainers to run independently of the other and allow crosstalk was a headache.  I think I said elsewhere that I actually didn't think Jean Luc was going to be able to pull it off and he did, that is amazing to me.

What you are paying for is the work that went into programming so that you could have these features available in the sim.  If that is something important enough for a user to justify the price then buy it, if you can't justify the price then don't buy it.  Pummeling the developer for charging money for his time or expecting him to work for free so you can sit at home simming on an entertainment sim that you can't log time on doesn't really sound like a reasonable or realistic expectation to me.

Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2009 at 10:55am
If this can help, I see some perceiving the value of GNS WAAS Unlimited only through 2 functions, TCAD and Cross Fill, that seems to be not worth that much money.

Let me try to explain again what GNS WAAS Unlimited contains:

1) one additional license to run a 430 and one additional license to run a 530 (these are like having 2 more GNS WAAS simulation devices).

2) Cross Fill capability between any type of GNS WAAS unit, the value of which depends on how/what you use it for

3) Ryan 9900BX TCAD Simulation. It is not just displaying target on a screen. It is a faithfull Ryan 9900BX TCAD Simulation, made with the help of a license agreement with Ryan International (now purchased by Avidyne).

This last point is important. To some, TCAS in flight sim is displaying TCASII-like symbols on a screen, ala radar gauge: there are some gauges like these, merely doing any collision computations, costing about $15 like this one:  http://emarciano.free.fr/En/index.htm

Our Ryan 9900BX simulation uses the same TCASII Mark7 engine we have developed, which passes the industry standard 250 TSIM tests. It is the most authentic TCASII simulation available for Flight Simulator, something that would be licensed around $50.000 in real world training and simulation applications.

Our TCAD simulation is not just diplaying targets on the screen. It is near-real TCASII Mark7 computations of threats, running in a Ryan 9900BX simulation, which communicates internally with the GNS WAAS Simulation. Even the GNS WAAS TCAD menu and controls are communicating and working (to some extent) with the Ryan TCAD simulation which is integrated.

So yes you are right, it is "just" cross fill + TCAD + 2 more GNS WAAS licenses, and these are the industry best simulation and implementation available today.

Jean-Luc
Jean-Luc
Back to Top
RobdeVries View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-25-2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobdeVries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-03-2009 at 11:45am
I think this is the point where our desire to get it as real as it gets turns the hobby into something undesired. Although I appreciate the hard work of companies as RXP and I admire their venture into real aviation industry. However hobby (read FS even as a procedural trainer) does not warrant such high costs. Whatever the math it's still way out of order compared to any addon

But it's my opinion and the only thing that's relevant is the realized sales. Time will tell RXP if their marketing strategy is valid. Perhaps they are slowly shifting their attention toward the more professional market? I know I won't buy it if it stays this expensive no matter how advanced and realistic. I'd say make it 29,95 and I'll buy.
Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries
Back to Top
John K View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: May-15-2008
Location: United States
Points: 49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2009 at 4:56am

[Let me try to explain again what GNS WAAS Unlimited contains:

1) one additional license to run a 430 and one additional license to run a 530 (these are like having 2 more GNS WAAS simulation devices).]

Now that looks better. But I didn't read anything to that effect in any of the statements describing the product. Only that you needed to also purchase either an 430 or 530 WAAS.

That said, I already have a license for a 530W and a lot of people already have two licenses. Why are we having to pay for two more licenses with the Unlimited product? Why not sell this upgrade for $20? And if I want the 430 or another 530 then I could buy that seperately!

edit: I did go back and read the product discription which is a lot more clear and does state that you get two licenses. But the press release and the top of this tread say different!!!

For a person who doesn't have any GNS WAAS, won't the Unlimited allow him to install two units without buying anything extra? 

A little less confussed.

Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-04-2009 at 9:16am
Originally posted by John K John K wrote:

[Let me try to explain again what GNS WAAS Unlimited contains:

1) one additional license to run a 430 and one additional license to run a 530 (these are like having 2 more GNS WAAS simulation devices).]

Now that looks better. But I didn't read anything to that effect in any of the statements describing the product. Only that you needed to also purchase either an 430 or 530 WAAS.

That said, I already have a license for a 530W and a lot of people already have two licenses. Why are we having to pay for two more licenses with the Unlimited product? Why not sell this upgrade for $20? And if I want the 430 or another 530 then I could buy that seperately!

edit: I did go back and read the product discription which is a lot more clear and does state that you get two licenses. But the press release and the top of this tread say different!!!

For a person who doesn't have any GNS WAAS, won't the Unlimited allow him to install two units without buying anything extra? 

A little less confussed.

If you already own the 430 adding Unlimited will allow you to run two 430's at the same time.  If you already own the 530 adding Unlimited will allow you to run two 530's.  And if you own both already you can run any combination of the two.  To those saying that Jean Luc's program is merely an interface to allow you to run the Garmin trainer it is true to a certain extent but were the programming as simple as that statement alludes we would have seen the release of the WAAS product and now this Unlimited product a few years ago and I am sure the pricing would have been in line with a simple programming task had it actually been a simple programming task.  It wasn't so the price is higher, remember Unlimited also adds an additional ability not seen in the Garmin trainer.

Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
alastairmonk View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: June-11-2002
Location: Uxbridge, UK
Points: 7547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alastairmonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 7:29am
Hi guys,

As with any software, it comes down to the individual user whether it is worth the money or not. If you think its too expensive, vote with your feet and don't buy it. We don't really need every potential user to post their opinions.

Alastair


Core i5 3570K overclocked to 4.7GHz, 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM, GTX 680 graphics, Win 7 64-bit

AOPA #04634067
Back to Top
RobdeVries View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-25-2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobdeVries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 8:22am
What a odd reaction Alastair!

I think people actually want to buy this piece of software but at a lower price.
So I think why people are expressing their disapproval is because we want a better deal. Simple.
Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries
Back to Top
alastairmonk View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: June-11-2002
Location: Uxbridge, UK
Points: 7547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alastairmonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 10:13am
Hi Rob,

There have been numerous threads both here and elsewhere discussing the "correct" price for products. All users want them as cheaply as possible, all producers want to make as much money out of their product as possible. Ultimately all products are offered at a price-point that may or not be the optimum for revenue generation and market forces will determine whether any given product is over-priced - if it is sales are poor.

Is this product expensive ? Yes

Do all users want it cheaper than marketed ? Of course they do. Like every other product on the planet it is more appealing if cheaper than actually sold .... I somehow doubt that this $99.95 item is going to be reduced to $29.95

Is the product over-priced ? Watch this space.

My attitude is a simple one. "Disaprove" of the cost ? Don't buy it. Posting that its too expensive may make your opinions known and show solidarity with those who feel the same but it doesn't change anything and more than likely won't affect the cost. Those that think its worth the cost will buy it, those that don't, won't. As you rightly say, its "just" a hobby.

Alastair


Core i5 3570K overclocked to 4.7GHz, 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM, GTX 680 graphics, Win 7 64-bit

AOPA #04634067
Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 10:14am
Well I can see someone deleted my post, though, after some of you (Dr. Zane) replied to it.

My point was not necessarily that this was too expensive.  Rather, my point was, why is it more expensive.  Until Jean Luc posted, the information... that is, detailed information... on this product was nil.  That is why I kept repeating myself, because there was no detailed information. 

Jean Luc, thank you for posting and giving a detailed description.  It truely serves to better market RXP's product.

Alastair, your customers are giving you *RXP* free marketing feedback, becoming frustrated over this is ridiculous because that won't change the customers viewpoint.
Mark
Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 10:24am
Alastair,

Any business-person will agree that there are products out there that have out-priced themselves right out of the market.  Indeed, RXP will have sales from this product, but they won't be as many as, say the GNS 530/430 line.  If that was the point, then great.  But expect us common users, used to seeing more features for our well stretch dollar, not purchase this product.  That is why I thought this was more pegged for the professional user... 3 features that offer true, real-world use and a relatively expensive price.  Don't get me wrong, I do see your point of, if you don't like it, don't buy it, but that attitude won't get anymore RXP supporters, and you may just loose a few.  Indeed, I understand that there was a lot of work that went into this.  I know that that hard work justifies the price, however, that does not mean that it will be flying off the shelves, especially in this economy.  I really do love the RXP products.  I think they are true to life and offer a great value, yet, as most have posted here, this is too steep a price to justify my support.
Mark
Back to Top
alastairmonk View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: June-11-2002
Location: Uxbridge, UK
Points: 7547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alastairmonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 10:35am
Hi Mark,

My position here is as Flight1 support. I'm not associated with RealityXP nor am I in any shape or form looking to act as a salesman for the products. Consider what I do "technical support" rather than marketing !

And I'm not frustrated with the feedback. However I've never really subscribed to the idea that continued complaining about a cost is much use when explanations as to why it is priced the way it is have already been given. Jean-Luc has replied to the initial comments, making his position known. His reply suggests that he thinks it has been priced correctly so any "debate" is now over.

I'm not the least opposed to free and frank discussion, but at this point it comes down to either "The product is worth the money" or "The product is not worth the money". Other than users voicing their opinions as to which side of the fence they come down on and thereby creating some sort of straw poll.

This in itself is no bad thing, but experience suggests that this sort of debate (where the subject being discussed has already been decided) invariably deteriorates into a sl*gging match, which is what I, as a F1CP "moderator" was seeking to avoid.

Obviously if everyone stays civil then the subject will be allowed to run on.

Cheers,

Alastair


Core i5 3570K overclocked to 4.7GHz, 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM, GTX 680 graphics, Win 7 64-bit

AOPA #04634067
Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 10:57am

Originally posted by SDFlyer SDFlyer wrote:

Well I can see someone deleted my post, though, after some of you (Dr. Zane) replied to it.

My point was not necessarily that this was too expensive.  Rather, my point was, why is it more expensive.  Until Jean Luc posted, the information... that is, detailed information... on this product was nil.  That is why I kept repeating myself, because there was no detailed information. 

Jean Luc, thank you for posting and giving a detailed description.  It truely serves to better market RXP's product.

Alastair, your customers are giving you *RXP* free marketing feedback, becoming frustrated over this is ridiculous because that won't change the customers viewpoint.

Certified professionals are support volunteers, not employees or part of the development team of RealityXP nor even employees of Flight1.  While we do have moderator functions for most Flight1 forums RealityXP forums are individually moderated so the CP's can only come in and make comments here to try keep a discussion in line with forum rules, any removal of a post was not done by any of the CP's.

Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
Bigmack View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-12-2003
Location: United States
Points: 233
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bigmack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-05-2009 at 11:07pm
Are there any plans on making tyhis software work on network computers.

Bill M
Back to Top
zfehr View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-02-2003
Points: 1227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zfehr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2009 at 12:42am

Originally posted by Bigmack Bigmack wrote:

Are there any plans on making tyhis software work on network computers.

Bill M

Hi Bill,

As downhill as this thread has gone I would suggest opening a new thread with your question which is a good one.

Regards,
Dr. Zane Gard

AOPA #00915027
EAA #825848
American Mensa #100314888
Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-06-2009 at 12:23pm
Originally posted by zfehr zfehr wrote:

Originally posted by SDFlyer SDFlyer wrote:

Well I can see someone deleted my post, though, after some of you (Dr. Zane) replied to it.

My point was not necessarily that this was too expensive.  Rather, my point was, why is it more expensive.  Until Jean Luc posted, the information... that is, detailed information... on this product was nil.  That is why I kept repeating myself, because there was no detailed information. 

Jean Luc, thank you for posting and giving a detailed description.  It truely serves to better market RXP's product.

Alastair, your customers are giving you *RXP* free marketing feedback, becoming frustrated over this is ridiculous because that won't change the customers viewpoint.

Certified professionals are support volunteers, not employees or part of the development team of RealityXP nor even employees of Flight1.  While we do have moderator functions for most Flight1 forums RealityXP forums are individually moderated so the CP's can only come in and make comments here to try keep a discussion in line with forum rules, any removal of a post was not done by any of the CP's.



I didn't mean that you deleted it.  Actually I didn't know that you had the moderator status till a few minutes ago.  My focus was that someone deleted my post, but I was glad that a few people were able to read it (yourself included)
Mark
Back to Top
RobdeVries View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-25-2003
Location: Netherlands
Points: 174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobdeVries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2009 at 3:19pm
Wothan,

You remark is in vain, they won't listen to their customers grieves and  requests. In fact they find this thread going in a downward spiral because of our remarks..Confused
Rob "Holland&Holland" de Vries
Back to Top
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2009 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by RobdeVries RobdeVries wrote:

Wothan,

You remark is in vain, they won't listen to their customers grieves and  requests. In fact they find this thread going in a downward spiral because of our remarks..Confused


On the contrary, we are listening our customers requests. Let's just see this from a different perspective, which I think Brian W Keske better explained in a post above: Reality XP GNS WAAS is not like your GA aircraft, Airliner, or similar addon. It is not a fake-I-pretend-being-a-TCAS-gauge just because it displays traffic around you in a TCAS fashion.

GNS WAAS is a product you always fly with. Any single hour spent on Flight Simulator, for many of you, is with any aircraft BUT with the GNS.

Furthermore, the TCAD simulation included in the GNS WAAS is professional grade simulation code, and the alerts you'd get in our simulation, are very close to what you'd get with a real one. I know there are "TCAS gauges" available, but there is not a single one, standalone, capable of what our TCAD simulation delivers. There are no TCAS gauge available that also displays in another GPS. Last but not least, there are traffic gauge selling for $15.

I know the price is steep, and many of you don't find the prive/value adequate. It is clear as well that the perceived value of our GNS product line is biased, because for the last 6 years, some customers have been able to purchase it for $15 only, with all free updates from v1.0 to v5.x spanning FS2002 and FS2004.

At the same time, any GNS CBT (CD ROM static screen shots) was retailing for $200 or more. You have got extremely good bargain with our products before, and I understand this biased the perceived price/value for such products, under-priced for many years.

Having said that, many of our customers also know we keep improving and adding features to our products, and GNS WAAS Unlimited customers would be the first rewarded when new features are becoming available for the GNS too.

Hope this helps!

Jean-Luc
Jean-Luc
Back to Top
krheerity View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-28-2006
Points: 13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krheerity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2009 at 4:52pm

I was one of the early posters on this thread and I agree that the discussion has gone down hill.

While I agree with the proposition that this particular product is priced beyond the value that it provides (at least to me), I also understand that the people who produced this product have worked hard, have to pay their own bills, and need to price their products accordingly.  Moreover, it is in our interests that they continue to pay their bills or they will simply stop producing new products or go out of business completely (the struggle that FSGenesis is having is a perfect example of what happens when you don't charge enough to cover your expenses).

I hope that this product is successful so that Jean-Luc and company can continue to produce excellent products as they have in the past.

I also hope that at some point they might consider decoupling the cross-fill (which has little value to me) from the TCAS (which has significant value) so that I can afford the TCAS.Big%20smile

Best Regards,

Ken

Back to Top
krheerity View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-28-2006
Points: 13
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krheerity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2009 at 5:14pm

I was just reviewing this thread when I noticed that my earlier post seems to have been deleted.  I would really like to know why.  I thouht my post was polite, reasonable and on topic.

My first post to this topic was the 4th post between "SDFlyer's" first post and Jean-Luc's first response.  It is clearly not there (or anywhere else in this thread).

This is more than a little disturbing,

Ken

Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2009 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by krheerity krheerity wrote:

I was one of the early posters on this thread and I agree that the discussion has gone down hill.

While I agree with the proposition that this particular product is priced beyond the value that it provides (at least to me), I also understand that the people who produced this product have worked hard, have to pay their own bills, and need to price their products accordingly.  Moreover, it is in our interests that they continue to pay their bills or they will simply stop producing new products or go out of business completely (the struggle that FSGenesis is having is a perfect example of what happens when you don't charge enough to cover your expenses).

I hope that this product is successful so that Jean-Luc and company can continue to produce excellent products as they have in the past.

I also hope that at some point they might consider decoupling the cross-fill (which has little value to me) from the TCAS (which has significant value) so that I can afford the TCAS.Big%20smile

Best Regards,

Ken



I'm in the same boat as Ken.  I realize that this product includes many professional features that simulate real life findings, and that the competition is priced even more then what you're charging.  I'd really like to see two things come from this.  First, I don't need cross-fill, but I'd really like TCAS.  Second, I really hope this thing sells.  Truly I do.


Mark
Back to Top
Kylan Walters View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: February-20-2008
Location: United States
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kylan Walters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-09-2009 at 10:38pm
I want to apologize for my previous post, it may have been taken in bad taste. Ive been a long time customer of RXP, and have a true devotion to you. Through all the crying-myself-to-sleep sessions over this price, i will be buying it at some point Wink

Question, everywhere it says you need to purchase both or one or the other GNS units then the Unlimited pack, but on the RXP website, it says:

"Two additional GNS WAAS licenses, one for a 430W and one for a 530W. This offers the capability to configure a panel with two GNS of the same model, like 430+430 or 530+530 in addition to mixed models (430+530)."

Which leads me to believe i get both the units with the unlimited package and dont need to purchase them separately.
kylan walters
Back to Top
Sikpupi View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: July-23-2003
Location: Finland
Points: 159
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sikpupi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2009 at 3:41am
Originally posted by Kylan Walters Kylan Walters wrote:


Which leads me to believe i get both the units with the unlimited package and dont need to purchase them separately.



That's the way I see it too, I don't own any of the FSX versions so this seems to be a good choice for me, especially since the 430 and 530 price crept up recently.
So can we have a simple YAY or NAY, I want to run one 430WAAS in an aircraft with TCAS. I currently own no 430WAAS. Can I just buy this package and have what I need?

A clear concise reply is appreciated.
Thanks.

This public service announcement was brought to you by Paul McGuire.
Back to Top
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2009 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Sikpupi Sikpupi wrote:

[QUOTE=Kylan Walters]
Which leads me to believe i get both the units with the unlimited package and dont need to purchase them separately.


What about reading the first paragraph of the first product feature page on the website:

http://www.reality-xp.com/flightsim/gns-unlimited/features/index.html

Choosing your dual setup is very easy: if you have purchased the GNS 430XP WAAS, GNS WAAS Unlimited permits running dual GNS 430 WAAS on the same panel. If you have purchased the GNS 530XP WAAS, GNS WAAS Unlimited permits running dual GNS 530 WAAS on the same panel.

or the product FAQ, with FAQ meaning "Frequently Askled Questions" under the question: "Do I need to purchase GNS 430XP WAAS or GNS 530XP WAAS products?"

http://www.reality-xp.com/flightsim/gns-unlimited/faq/index.html

Jean-Luc
Jean-Luc
Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-10-2009 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Reality XP Reality XP wrote:



GNS WAAS is a product you always fly with. Any single hour spent on Flight Simulator, for many of you, is with any aircraft BUT with the GNS.


Jean-Luc - does this mean that the WAAS products are getting upgraded to work with OBS's and HSI's for FS9 (most of them, not just a handful)?  A rumor was that RXP was working on a fix or work-around.

Originally posted by Reality XP Reality XP wrote:


Furthermore, the TCAD simulation included in the GNS WAAS is professional grade simulation code, and the alerts you'd get in our simulation, are very close to what you'd get with a real one. I know there are "TCAS gauges" available, but there is not a single one, standalone, capable of what our TCAD simulation delivers. There are no TCAS gauge available that also displays in another GPS. Last but not least, there are traffic gauge selling for $15.

I know the price is steep, and many of you don't find the prive/value adequate. It is clear as well that the perceived value of our GNS product line is biased, because for the last 6 years, some customers have been able to purchase it for $15 only, with all free updates from v1.0 to v5.x spanning FS2002 and FS2004.


If this is professional quality why are, not necessarily from you, but from others in this forum, getting up in arms that common-user customers are shocked by a $99 price tag?

Originally posted by Reality XP Reality XP wrote:


At the same time, any GNS CBT (CD ROM static screen shots) was retailing for $200 or more. You have got extremely good bargain with our products before, and I understand this biased the perceived price/value for such products, under-priced for many years.


But the common user doesn't use these products.

Originally posted by Reality XP Reality XP wrote:


Having said that, many of our customers also know we keep improving and adding features to our products, and GNS WAAS Unlimited customers would be the first rewarded when new features are becoming available for the GNS too.

Hope this helps!

Jean-Luc


I hope this doesn't mean that you'll put those of us who buy your larger volume selling software, like the 530/430 line, on the back burner.

Please don't just delete this.  I truely would like answers if possible.

Thank you
Mark
Back to Top
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-13-2009 at 2:14pm
Mark,

there are a handful of new features planned to be integrated in our GNS simulation. A number of these new features are certainly geared, and adapted, to the customers purchasing the GNS WAAS Unlimited product.

We do support overriding FS variables to permit offering a feature not possible with the FS SDK: controlling the VOR/HSI needles from our gauge.

For FS9, our technology works with any C/C++ gauge (HSI+VOR+GPS variables).

For FSX, our technology works with any C/C++ gauge (HSI+VOR+GPS variables) and with any XML gauge (HSI only).

We will not be able to support XML variables for the older FS9 platform.

Jean-Luc
Jean-Luc
Back to Top
SDFlyer View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: July-15-2004
Points: 35
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SDFlyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2009 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by Reality XP Reality XP wrote:

Mark,

there are a handful of new features planned to be integrated in our GNS simulation. A number of these new features are certainly geared, and adapted, to the customers purchasing the GNS WAAS Unlimited product.

We do support overriding FS variables to permit offering a feature not possible with the FS SDK: controlling the VOR/HSI needles from our gauge.

For FS9, our technology works with any C/C++ gauge (HSI+VOR+GPS variables).

For FSX, our technology works with any C/C++ gauge (HSI+VOR+GPS variables) and with any XML gauge (HSI only).

We will not be able to support XML variables for the older FS9 platform.

Jean-Luc

What does this mean for those of us who don't purchase the Unlimited package, and have both 430 and 530 WAAS units?

How can I tell if the HSI, OBS is C/C++ built?
Mark
Back to Top
alastairmonk View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: June-11-2002
Location: Uxbridge, UK
Points: 7547
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alastairmonk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-15-2009 at 3:42pm
Hi Mark,

No doubt Jean-Luc can give a technical explanation, but if you substitute the WAAS unit for the supplied one and load the aircraft, when the GNS is started there is a "check" screen where there is a specified deflection of the two CDI bars.

If the bars deflect as specified, the GPS is communicating with the HSI. If there is no deflection, it isn't.

That being said, if there is an easy, not-too-technical way of checking whether an HSI is XML or C/C++ I'd be as interested as anyone !

Cheers,

Alastair


Core i5 3570K overclocked to 4.7GHz, 8GB 1600MHz DDR3 RAM, GTX 680 graphics, Win 7 64-bit

AOPA #04634067
Back to Top
Reality XP View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: October-25-2002
Points: 4592
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reality XP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-16-2009 at 1:10pm
Yes it is very easy! a C/C++ gauge is a Windows DLL, either renamed .gau for FS9, or .dll for FSX.

An XML gauge is generally packed in a .cab archive (similar to a .zip) or is a .XML accompanied with bitmap images in a folder.

The trick is that a gauge is referenced in the panel.cfg file without the file extension. This means that:

gauge00=myGauge!gauge1

can relate to

myGauge.dll
myGauge.gau
myGauge.cab
myGauge.xml
myGauge\myGauge.xml

So you just have to cross check what gauge name relates to what file name.

Jean-Luc
Jean-Luc
Back to Top
signmanbob View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: November-29-2006
Location: United States
Points: 254
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote signmanbob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-19-2009 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by krheerity krheerity wrote:

I also understand that the people who produced this product have worked hard, have to pay their own bills, and need to price their products accordingly.  Moreover, it is in our interests that they continue to pay their bills or they will simply stop producing new products or go out of business completely (the struggle that FSGenesis is having is a perfect example of what happens when you don't charge enough to cover your expenses).

I hope that this product is successful so that Jean-Luc and company can continue to produce excellent products as they have in the past.



I believe that this is the big issue here.  RealityXP has to make a profit from their work or this all just becomes a big expensive hobby and probably won't continue for long.
Because of the better potential of FSX and the skill of the developers to make more realistic simulations, it is attracting a breed of simmers that have more of a desire for realistic flying.  Even among simmers that are not real pilots, like myself, we like to have the tools of real pilots and not fly "simtoys".  I enjoy learning how the real panels work and like the assurance of knowing I'm not using an arcade panel.
There are some things that are out of my reach, like modules, but I like having the most real software gauges like weather radar, FMS, GPS, etc. that I can get my hands on and I understand that this kind of realism costs more to build and carries a larger price tag.
RealityXP has always provided the highest quality and most realistic software  gauge products for aircraft simulations that is available anywhere and I sure don't mind paying a little more for the ability to have any combination of dual interacting GPS and TCAS.
Obviously, It's not for everyone, but will be attractive to many. 
Back to Top
LaxMan View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: January-21-2009
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LaxMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-19-2010 at 6:26am

Hey Jean-Luc, SmileTongueSmileTongueSmileTongue


Nice Job on the new updates, both Waas and flight line gauges all work,WOW!!!

One little issue.... The 530 Waas units are a little sluggish when I press the keys I assigned in the ini. It seems that everythibg responds slower, even powering them up takes awhile longer. This only happens in FSX, Not in FS9. Both on windows 7. Any ideas ?

FYI: I do have the acceleration pack installed on the FSX, it came with the program.

Again, Nice Job !!!!

                                                                Jeffrey L Lax

Jeffrey L Lax
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.422 seconds.