TAT readings a bit high?

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Stephen,

Wonder if you could take a look at the following and see if what I am seeing is correct data.
Took off out of PHX northeast bound. I just passed the INW VOR at FL280. I am seeing the TAT reading (flying the NGX) still showing +9C. I know its hot down this way but I dont ever remember AS2012 reading this high at this altitude. Maybe what I am seeing is the correct real world data. I know she is struggling to climb to FL350. And yes, my weights and CRZ ALT are within normal ops. Here is the text output:

Local MetStn : K0E4, Payson, Distance 9.0 km

KFLG 021557Z 06008KT 10SM OVC090 20/12 A3036 RMK AO2 SLP181 T02000122
KINW 021556Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 22/14 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP176 T02170144 $
KSJN 021554Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 23/11 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP152 T02330111
KSOW 021615Z AUTO 08005KT 10SM CLR 25/10 A3033 RMK AO2
KFFZ 021551Z 01004KT 40SM SCT150 33/17 A2990
KSDL 021553Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 32/18 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP104 T03220183
KCHD 021550Z VRB04KT 35SM FEW150 33/18 A2990
KPHX 021551Z 00000KT 10SM SCT170 SCT200 34/18 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP096 T03390178 $
KDVT 021553Z AUTO VRB03KT 10SM CLR 33/18 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP099 T03280178 TSNO
KLUF 021555Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM FEW170 34/17 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP096 T03430166 $
KIWA 021547Z VRB03KT 30SM BKN250 33/19 A2993
KGYR 021547Z VRB04KT 10SM SCT180 BKN200 34/17 A2990
KGEU 021547Z 26004KT 20SM SCT150 SCT250 34/17 A2990
KCGZ 021615Z AUTO 28006KT 10SM CLR 34/17 A2993 RMK AO1
KSAD 021551Z AUTO VRB03KT 10SM CLR 29/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP114 T02940117 TSNO
KPGA 021553Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 23/14 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP156 T02280144
KGCN 021554Z 07005KT 10SM OVC090 16/13 A3033 RMK AO2 RAE19B44E54 SLP194 P0000  T01610133
KRQE 021553Z AUTO 34003KT 10SM CLR 21/10 A3035 RMK AO2 SLP159 T02110100 TSNO $
KGUP 021553Z AUTO 28004KT 10SM CLR 22/09 A3033 RMK AO2 SLP107 T02170094
KPRC 021553Z 33003KT 10SM BKN120 23/16 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP151 T02280156
KSEZ 021615Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 26/17 A3020 RMK AO2

25 MetStns, 21 Metars Available

As an update, at FL350 I am seeing TAT at -5C. That is about right from what I have seen in the past for this time of year.

One last thing, I had to activate the wind smoothing near aircraft feature of fsuipc. The winds aloft shift so suddenly some 100 degrees it is causing the A/T to get overworked keeping up.

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B777ER Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: May-27-2004 Points: 129	Post Options Post Reply Quote B777ER Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: TAT readings a bit high? Posted: September-02-2012 at 12:35pm
	Stephen, Wonder if you could take a look at the following and see if what I am seeing is correct data. Took off out of PHX northeast bound. I just passed the INW VOR at FL280. I am seeing the TAT reading (flying the NGX) still showing +9C. I know its hot down this way but I dont ever remember AS2012 reading this high at this altitude. Maybe what I am seeing is the correct real world data. I know she is struggling to climb to FL350. And yes, my weights and CRZ ALT are within normal ops. Here is the text output: Local MetStn : K0E4, Payson, Distance 9.0 km KFLG 021557Z 06008KT 10SM OVC090 20/12 A3036 RMK AO2 SLP181 T02000122 KINW 021556Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 22/14 A3023 RMK AO2 SLP176 T02170144 $ KSJN 021554Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 23/11 A3026 RMK AO2 SLP152 T02330111 KSOW 021615Z AUTO 08005KT 10SM CLR 25/10 A3033 RMK AO2 KFFZ 021551Z 01004KT 40SM SCT150 33/17 A2990 KSDL 021553Z 00000KT 10SM CLR 32/18 A2993 RMK AO2 SLP104 T03220183 KCHD 021550Z VRB04KT 35SM FEW150 33/18 A2990 KPHX 021551Z 00000KT 10SM SCT170 SCT200 34/18 A2988 RMK AO2 SLP096 T03390178 $ KDVT 021553Z AUTO VRB03KT 10SM CLR 33/18 A2991 RMK AO2 SLP099 T03280178 TSNO KLUF 021555Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM FEW170 34/17 A2989 RMK AO2 SLP096 T03430166 $ KIWA 021547Z VRB03KT 30SM BKN250 33/19 A2993 KGYR 021547Z VRB04KT 10SM SCT180 BKN200 34/17 A2990 KGEU 021547Z 26004KT 20SM SCT150 SCT250 34/17 A2990 KCGZ 021615Z AUTO 28006KT 10SM CLR 34/17 A2993 RMK AO1 KSAD 021551Z AUTO VRB03KT 10SM CLR 29/12 A3004 RMK AO2 SLP114 T02940117 TSNO KPGA 021553Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 23/14 A3018 RMK AO2 SLP156 T02280144 KGCN 021554Z 07005KT 10SM OVC090 16/13 A3033 RMK AO2 RAE19B44E54 SLP194 P0000 T01610133 KRQE 021553Z AUTO 34003KT 10SM CLR 21/10 A3035 RMK AO2 SLP159 T02110100 TSNO $ KGUP 021553Z AUTO 28004KT 10SM CLR 22/09 A3033 RMK AO2 SLP107 T02170094 KPRC 021553Z 33003KT 10SM BKN120 23/16 A3021 RMK AO2 SLP151 T02280156 KSEZ 021615Z AUTO 00000KT 10SM CLR 26/17 A3020 RMK AO2 25 MetStns, 21 Metars Available As an update, at FL350 I am seeing TAT at -5C. That is about right from what I have seen in the past for this time of year. One last thing, I had to activate the wind smoothing near aircraft feature of fsuipc. The winds aloft shift so suddenly some 100 degrees it is causing the A/T to get overworked keeping up.
	Eric

Opus Software Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April-12-2012 Location: Grantham, UK Points: 15442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Opus Software Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-02-2012 at 12:48pm
	Hi Eric The surface temperature of course is set by us, however the Ambient temperature and TAT is calculated entirely within FSX, all we do is monitor and report them via the Spy window when it is open. As you probably know the TAT is always hotter than Ambient air temperature (which is what the sim is actually using in its modelling). It can also read unusually high due to friction effects, the temperature rise of the TAT is never entirely due to adiabatic processes so is always an approximation. But once again these are simulated entirely within FSX. Regards Stephen

B777ER Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: May-27-2004 Points: 129	Post Options Post Reply Quote B777ER Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-02-2012 at 12:51pm
	Thanks Stephen. I updated the bottom part of my post. As an aside, do you know if the other wx programs also do the temps the same way?
	Eric

Opus Software Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April-12-2012 Location: Grantham, UK Points: 15442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Opus Software Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-02-2012 at 1:00pm
	Hi Eric I should have mentioned of course the winds aloft changes are due to the infamous FSX winds aloft bug. Which occurs during any weather update. Could you please keep an eye on them with the FSUIPC4 wind smoothing enabled and let me know how effective it is and what settings you have found best. We will do all we can in the future to combat this annoying FSX bug, it only seems to manifest itself above about FL240 so short haul flights below FL200 usually get a smooth, FSX error free, ride. We have a few ideas we are going to try after the next LWE upgrade, mostly to do with using static wind targets above a certain altitude until back down in the safe zone. Regards Stephen Regards Stephen

Opus Software Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April-12-2012 Location: Grantham, UK Points: 15442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Opus Software Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-02-2012 at 1:04pm
	You can set temperature targets at different altitudes within FSX but I'm not too sure how well FSX adheres to them. For instance it will completely ignore and winds aloft targets totally. It seems to prefer doing its own thing when at altitude. In our trials we found the ambient air temp modelled pretty well within FSX and in agreement with meteorological norms. That's the main reason why we didn't bother setting targets since FSX was doing a pretty good job. Regards Stephen

B777ER Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: May-27-2004 Points: 129	Post Options Post Reply Quote B777ER Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-02-2012 at 1:23pm
	Thanks Stephen. In an effort to understand how it works, where is fsx getting the temp data from? If we are using just your program and not using the default fsx weather, is not your program the only one downloading data? Fsx it's not doing a seperate download is it? Or is fsx extrapolating the data it gets from opus and then injecting it into the sim without any backend processing from opus?
	Eric

Opus Software Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April-12-2012 Location: Grantham, UK Points: 15442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Opus Software Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-02-2012 at 1:29pm
	Hi Eric, Just to clarify, we download all weather, FSX does not download any weather. We then set all the surface temperatures through the region. FSX then interpolates from this the temperatures aloft. Regards Cheryl

Opus Software Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Senior Member Joined: April-12-2012 Location: Grantham, UK Points: 15442	Post Options Post Reply Quote Opus Software Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: September-17-2012 at 7:05am
	Just to clarify ... The OpusFSX LWE just sets the surface temperatures and it is FSX that calculates and sets the Ambient Temerature and TAT at altitude. The high TAT reading is a common problem on many systems using different weather engines, it is therefore most likely down to an FSX/P3D problem. Many different methods have so far been tried including setting temperature targets at different altitudes and the TAT problem still persists, so the fix if any will not be straight forward. If you experience a problem then please report it in the recommended manner by sending me your OpusWeather.txt file and telling me where you were. Also ... take a look at the Spy window, change your altitude (descend) until OpusFSX displays an Ambient Air Temperature and TAT change ... record what it says, these are the current calculated values within the simulator. Perhaps thay are correct and your aircraft gauge is wrong. Regards Stephen