SimForums.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion Forums > Hardware, Software, and Computer Technology
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Random Power On
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Random Power On

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Random Power On
    Posted: August-17-2021 at 8:43am
Twice in the last few weeks I've gone into my computer room to discover my system on. These situations where it has randomly turned on is from a shut down state. Any ideas what may be going on here?
Back to Top
robmw View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-02-2005
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 348
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2021 at 11:27am
Has wake-on-LAN somehow been configured? If so that would provide a mechanism. I think the Asus BIOS also allows wake on RTC under the APM settings but that would have to be set at a defined time unless there's a BIOS glitch. Are there any Windows event log entries giving a clue?

On my old Z97 Asus system (Win 7) I can wake the system from shutdown using a mouse click (but not keyboard or any other USB interface device). This isn't configurable anywhere in the BIOS and I've never understood how it happens. I just mention it as unexplained behavior although in my case it's useful. My new Z490 doesn't do this and I don't use any power save or standby modes in either system.

Other than that I can only think of corruption somewhere in the Windows power management configuration, a driver problem (maybe the NIC driver) and/or a hardware or BIOS issue - not very helpful I know!

Re-installing vanilla Windows plus drivers after taking a current system image and leaving that alone for a while to see what happens might narrow things down to hardware or Windows / drivers, but again very inconvenient when you need to use your system. Possibly a BIOS re-flash and restore of your config might be worth trying too.

Hopefully someone else has some more ideas as I'm guessing a lot of the above has already gone through your mind. Smile 
i9 10900K @4.9 GHz, Asus Maximus Hero XII, 32GB 4000 DDR4, Asus RTX 3090, Samsung NVme SSDs, Windows 10 Pro 64.
Back to Top
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2021 at 5:57pm
In BIOS wake on LAN and wake on RTC are both disabled. 

In Windows Power Options, I have Sleep set to Never, Hybrid Sleep Off and Hibernate set to Never. Wake Timers is set to Enabled. Should this be disabled?

Like I mentioned, this happened from a shut down state.
Back to Top
cal2177 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: November-12-2005
Location: KGRK
Points: 4380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2021 at 6:15pm
In Win 10 the default state when you shut down is really not shut down. Its goes in to a fast boot up mode. It looks off, but its not. There is a setting somewhere where you can turn that off so that when you shut down, its shut down.
John Patterson
Back to Top
Donovan16 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: August-30-2012
Location: KCMA
Points: 347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donovan16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 1:31am
I've not had this problem, but there is no bad effect to giving this a try.  It does not slow my boot up times to any noticeable degree on my system so I've left it this way as described below. 

As Cal has stated, Windows 10 by default does not immediately fully power off:


" Fast Startup combines elements of a cold shutdown and the hibernate feature. When you shut down your computer with Fast Startup enabled, Windows closes all applications and logs off all users, just as in a normal cold shutdown. At this point, Windows is in a state very similar to when it’s freshly booted up: No users have logged in and started programs, but the Windows kernel is loaded and the system session is running. Windows then alerts device drivers that support it to prepare for hibernation, saves the current system state to the hibernation file, and turns off the computer.

When you start the computer again, Windows does not have to reload the kernel, drivers, and system state individually. Instead, it just refreshes your RAM with the loaded image from the hibernation file and delivers you to the login screen. This technique can shave considerable time off your start up. "

To turn off Fast Startup in Windows 10:

Control Panel > Power Options > Choose what the power buttons do > Change Settings that are currently unavailable

Set the following:

"When I press the power button" -- Set to "Shut Down" in the dropdown box
"When I press the sleep button" -- Set to "Do Nothing" in the dropdown box

Remove the checkmark from the boxes:

 "Turn on fast startup (recommended)"
 "Sleep"
 "Hibernate"

Click "Save Changes"

Reboot and verify

Some systems don't do well with Fast Startup.  I don't know why these strange reboots are occurring, but on the off-chance that it is a USB Device, or a Network Adapter that is triggering a Wake Up you might try to disable both the "Allow the computer to turn off this device to save power" and "Allow this device to wake computer" bullets, through Device Manager for each device, under each's Power Management tab.  (Human Interface Devices, USB Controllers, and Network Adapters.)

The only device I allow to "Wake" the computer is the keyboard, and having USB controllers or devices turn off while in flight reeks havoc with a simulator.

But like I said, I don't have the same problem with the system booting up when supposedly "off."   Disabling Fast Startup should ensure the system expediently powers off and is not aberrantly left in a limbo state susceptible to being woke up.  

I suppose a faulty case button or its connections is possible and cheap to fix, or as Rob suggested a restore a good system image from a point prior to you noticing this boot up problem.  (I assume you have been making system image backups.)

Then there are the slightly more painful re-install options as Rob points out.

Best,
Don

i9 10900K 5.2 GHz, ROG Maximus Hero XII, RTX 3090, 32 Gb GSkill TridentZ 4000 15-16-16, 1Tb Samsung 970 EVO Plus, 2Tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD, (2) 2 Tb WD 7200 HDs, Corsair H150i, Win10 Pro x64
Back to Top
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 6:11am
Thanks Don. I'll try these suggestions. Do you guys recommend disabling Wake Timers in my power settings as well?
Back to Top
cal2177 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: November-12-2005
Location: KGRK
Points: 4380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 7:59am
I disable everything that might wake my computer or keep it from fully shutting down. I'm old school and don't trust anything that keeps my machine active. I also disable anything that will make my computer sleep or hibernate. When I want it on, I want it to stay on. When I want it off, I want it dead, figuratively speaking.

I go one step further. I even turn off the power button on the power supply. But that's just me and probably doesn't make any difference so your mileage may vary.
John Patterson
Back to Top
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 8:23am
Thank you John
Back to Top
cal2177 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: November-12-2005
Location: KGRK
Points: 4380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 11:03am
My pleasure. Blue skies!
John Patterson
Back to Top
Donovan16 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: August-30-2012
Location: KCMA
Points: 347
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donovan16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 11:09am
Quick question for the DDog:  Do you have an UPS installed?  (Uninterruptible Power Supply?)  You may need to re-install the driver/software for it and recheck your settings in the software.


i9 10900K 5.2 GHz, ROG Maximus Hero XII, RTX 3090, 32 Gb GSkill TridentZ 4000 15-16-16, 1Tb Samsung 970 EVO Plus, 2Tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD, (2) 2 Tb WD 7200 HDs, Corsair H150i, Win10 Pro x64
Back to Top
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 11:59am
Originally posted by Donovan16 Donovan16 wrote:

Quick question for the DDog:  Do you have an UPS installed?  (Uninterruptible Power Supply?)  You may need to re-install the driver/software for it and recheck your settings in the software.



I do not
Back to Top
robmw View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-02-2005
Location: United Kingdom
Points: 348
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 1:31pm
Checking the power management features for every device to ensure they are not set to sleep or wake from standby is definitely worth doing. Like John I have every sleep / standby / hibernate option disabled (even the monitor) so my system does a full shut down.

I do use a UPS for both my PCs but tend to not actually switch off the PSU - the motherboard is still getting juice as I can see the reset and cmos lights are on, plus my CH flight controllers are still illuminated showing USB is a live circuit. But I don't have a spontaneous start-up issue (at least not to date!)

Not sure if someone suggested this, but try removing every connected USB device, as these will likely have current going to them if the PSU is live - if the problem goes away then you can find the offending device by elimination.

Switching off the PSU via a manual switch should definitely stop the problem, UPS or no. If not then something is wrong with the PSU which could actually be an electrical hazard.

I'm making assumptions you have similar hardware to most who are posting here (as recommended for clocking) so I'm thinking this may be a hardware glitch of some kind.
i9 10900K @4.9 GHz, Asus Maximus Hero XII, 32GB 4000 DDR4, Asus RTX 3090, Samsung NVme SSDs, Windows 10 Pro 64.
Back to Top
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 1:45pm
Thanks Rob. I'm going to start by addressing all the power management settings. If I find that it happens again, I'll take your advice on trying to narrow it down to a connected USB device. This startup has happened twice over a few week period so trying to narrow it down to a particular USB device could be lengthly process Confused
Back to Top
cal2177 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: November-12-2005
Location: KGRK
Points: 4380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-18-2021 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by robmw robmw wrote:


Not sure if someone suggested this, but try removing every connected USB device, as these will likely have current going to them if the PSU is live - if the problem goes away then you can find the offending device by elimination.


I use an AC powered USB hub. Mainly because it uses AC to power the devices and doesn't use up any PC resources. Plugging in too many USB devices will cause the computer to deny power to as many devices as necessary to get the power output back to normal. As an added bonus, to unplug all connected USB devices, you just unplug one cable. The USB cable going to the computer from the hub.

If you are considering doing this, I have had my best luck with Anker brand hubs. I've never had one fail.
John Patterson
Back to Top
myaiwebs View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: February-24-2022
Location: mexico
Points: 1
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote myaiwebs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2022 at 12:32am
I think sometimes its just that the system unit lacks common ground. What I usually do is I use a wire and tap it in any metal that is connected to the ground and the other point of the wire is connected to any of the screws of the computer.
Back to Top
deviantdog View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: November-20-2016
Location: Cape Cod
Points: 95
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote deviantdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2022 at 10:52am
For me this issue hasn't presented itself again since disabling Fast Startup and in the Device Manager, going into the properties of each of of my USB and network devices and unchecking "Allow this device to wake the computer."
Back to Top
cal2177 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: November-12-2005
Location: KGRK
Points: 4380
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-24-2022 at 12:43pm
I turn all of that nonsense off when I get a new computer. I don't want my computer doing anything without me telling it to.
John Patterson
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.359 seconds.