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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Optimizing Win10
    Posted: April-18-2021 at 10:25am
It might me a bit late for an optimizing Win10 post for many, but for me Win10 is new.

Besides, it is rainy and cold so why not invest some time in researching how I can optimize Win10 for performance.

In the past we have had a little help for Win7 with Nicks Bible.

Just a little Wink

And although Win7 and Win10 are not the same I can imagine some things can still be changed for the OS to run with less unnecessary stuff.

Since I am an amateur at this the idea is to only sum up some simple stuff here.

For example things like UAC and HDD indexing, etc.

If this has been done before I must have missed it, so please do tell!

Also, if Win10 is much better and efficient compared to Win7 so that it does not need to be optimized for an MSFS2020 (or other sim) dedicated PC...then also, please do tell!

If any inputs come along from you guys I will gather them and add them to my post below.

thanks.
Rob
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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2021 at 10:34am
Things I think we can do to optimize Win10:

1) recovery partition.

I noticed after installing Win10 that it installs a recovery partition (without a drive letter.)
You can find it by typing disk management in the settings search box.
Its size is about 0.5GB.
Not a lot, but with Win7 I had the recovery options turned off and used the Win7 build in image creating tool for making backups of the OS.

With Win10 I have read one might get into ownership problems with that method so I am going to use a third party backup software to create images this time around.

So I should not need the Windows recovery tool, nor the partition.
Its a waste of 0.5GB for me.

Now it seems to me (after googeling about it a bit) that the recovery tool only creates a backup of very basic Windows settings after the first install and after each Windows update.
(no data or software is backed up)
So the recovery tool should not be a performance killing service that causes poor simulator performance.
The only reason to kill the recovery tool and partition would be the 0.5GB of drive space.

In other words, if you dont care about the 500MB drive space, or if you dont make regular backup images....then it is suggested you just leave it alone.
If I wasn't creating a sim dedicated system then I would nalso leave it aloner I think....who knows what the recovery tool is good for somewhere down the line!

(anybody, if Win10 absolutely needs this partition, then please do tell!)


here is the link where I found the info below (with pictures):

By opening up the command prompt (type command in the search field of the task bar) I found the Command Prompt.
Just to be sure, I opened it up with a right click and run as administrator)

by typing
reagentc /info
you can see if the recovery tool is enabled or disable at the moment.
by typing:
reagentc /enable
reagentc /disable you can enable/disable it.


To delete the recovery partition I found something here:
https://www.partitionwizard.com/partitionmagic/delete-recovery-partition.html

there are several methods.
I used the first method listed there, using Diskpart.
But, as is mentioned, although easy and quick you cant realy see what you are deleting.
In my case, having nothing installed in a fresh Win10 installation and only the one Disk (NVMe SSD) installed in the PC, I cant do much wrong.
If you have a lot of stuff installed already, then maybe use one of the other methods.
In any case, I would disconnect all but the OS disk!

Type diskpart in the search box, right-click on diskpart and select Run as administrator.

Type list disk
Type select disk n, where "n" should be replaced with the disk number holding the OS
Type list partition to list all the partitions on the selected disk.
Type select partition n where "n" should be the partition number with the recovery partition.
Type delete partition to delete the recovery partition (this is the part where you cant see what you are deleting anymore, so be sure you got the correct disk and partition)

If you come across an error message saying "cannot delete a protected partition without the force protected parameter set" (I did get that message), then

type gpt attributes=0x8000000000000000 (that is 15 zeros after that 8) and then try delete partition again.
The recovery partition should be deleted.
(In my case it was)

It might be possible to simply remove the recovery partition during WIN10 installation....I do not know yet...if I find out that is possible then I will post so.

2) Windows Defender is different now in Win10 than it was in Win7.
It looks different and I dont see a one click solution to turn it off.
But the good thing seems to be that once you install a third party anti virus software (I did) that this automatically turns off some of the Defender options.
Real Time protection was turned off automatically.
I manually turned off cloud delivered protection and automatic sample submission.
These options probably dont do anything anymore anyway now that my ESET NOD32 has taken over, but just in case.
(in the past Windows Defender was a resource hog so even though it read it has evolved and become better, I want it off)

Under Windows Services I see two Windows Defender entries.
The Windows Defender Firewall seems to replace the WIN7 firewall so I will leave that on for sure.
I tried to disable Windows Defender Advanced Threat Protection Service there but acces was denied.
The service was not running though and in MANUAL mode.
I will leave it like that for now and see if I can get more info on it.



UAC:
Initially I will turn UAC off and install all drivers.
Additionally I will install the drivers and software from Samsung and Intel and ASUS etc with the option „install as administrator“ and my Anti virus software paused.
To make sure nothing gets blocked/corrupted.

I will do the same when I want to install FSX or MSFS2020 I think.

But after that I will put UAC back to default (on),
and 
use „run as administrator“ for 100% safe software, 
or
create a backup image before installing/running software I am not 100% sure of.

to be continued...

Rob
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TheFamilyMan View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-18-2021 at 2:03pm
Here's a tool I use to prune Win 10 features.  Seems to work fine for me, and it's still maintained by the dev:
Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.2 no HT, Asus Maximus XII Hero, 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16, EVGA GTX 1070 SC, Noctua NH-D15S, Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU

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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2021 at 7:57am
That looks very useful, thanks!

It seems to be mainly for reducing all the data Microsoft is trying to collect from us, so mainly a privacy protection tool.
But I guess that reducing telemetry will also reduce CPU cycles somewhat.


Rob
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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2021 at 8:59am
UAC:

I think that most of us should keep UAC as per default (on) with Win10 so that not every app has full admin rights to the OS. 
On my dedicated flightsim PC I think I can safely turn it off but the thing is....I read it does not seem to help much :-(
So what is the point?

If understand correctly, on Win7 with the UAC slider all the way down it really was off.
So that made sense.

With Win10 however this is somehow not always the case.
So despite UAC being off, you often still need to use  „run as administrator“ 

„run as administrator“ bypasses UAC for sure I read.

If that is the case we could just leave UAC as per default (on), and every time we install something that we know is safe, choose „run as administrator“.
Also everytime we open software that changes the simulator (GEX and UTX and OPUS FSX for example) I would use „run as administrator“
Just to make sure nothing gets blocked and corrupted during the install/changes.

I personally also put my virus scanner at pause when install new scenery or aircraft into FSX.

When I install stuff I am not 100% sure off (which is every software not endorsed by Nick except sim addons from know vendors) I would not use the „as admin“ option.
This way UAC will warn me if something tries to access something I was not expecting.
I personally find it pretty difficult when I get these UAC questions about whether or not I want to allow software deep access to my OS or not.
How should I know?
So what I do next is that before I install something that needs unexpected deep access to my OS, I create a backup image first.
Unless I am 100% sure the software is safe...then I do not create an image.
Yes it takes some time.....but I dont install much on my dedicated sim PC anyway.
And even if I did...oh well...the time it takes to create an image is still much less than it takes to start from scratch if things get screwed up.

So with Win10 I will keep UAC on, and 
use „run as administrator“ for 100% safe software, or
create a backup image before installing/running software I am not 100% sure of.

By the way, since it is sometimes hard to tell if a new software screwed up the OS I keep more than just the latest image so I can go back in time quite far.
Not having data (like photos and movies and FSX scenery) on C reduces the size of the images.

Rob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2021 at 1:09pm
Rob - If you haven't done so already I'd highly recommend installing Process Explorer (https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer) to take a close look at what is running on your computer as an aid to taking back control of those CPU cycles. It is more comprehensive than the (pretty) good Task Manager that comes with Win 10 and shows CPU usage history for all processes in an easy to understand way. Windows 10 Resource Monitor and WMI can also provide very detailed information about what is running over time but are harder to set up and use IMO.

Win 10 is easier to control to some degree now than it was a few years ago and I'll be using those guides (and what you find Smile) when I get on with my build, but it's useful to have a tool to monitor what is going on as well.
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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2021 at 2:23pm
Yes sir....very good stuff!

I dont have that yet, but I will certainly look at it :-)

Thanks 

Thumbs Up
Rob
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NickN View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-19-2021 at 10:24pm
Virtual paranoia will become a problem if you can't get over certain data collection you can never stop with W10

The recovery partition is ONLY NEEDED IF you do not shut down system restore for the drive(s) and a 'major system" crash occurs Otherwise and if you wish to use SR that partition must remain untouched. It restores the latest version of Windows and then SR overlays the last image after a change.


There's also another factor with image backups... (3rd party or Windows internal)

They are only as valuable as they can be proven WORK. That means one must:

A: Destroy the current install and recover it to test the solution in combat

or

B: Obtain another drive (or use another drive) to restore the backup in a test, verify it boots and runs, saving the original drive out of the loop in case the backup/restore doesnt work or needs refinement to make it work...  same thing with A


As for UAC..  shut the sh*t down and stop being paranoid. Just make sure to run application installers and launch "As Administrator" that are not coded to do so automatically for W10 which in W7 wasn't required but is in W10. Once you have a shortcut after a product install you can use the properties of that shortcut to set the app to launch and save: "As Administrator" and not have to use that right click for the application any longer.

I clearly explained that UAC only has value for a office or network system and that has never changed. I would be more afraid of having my FMC hacked by Iranian terrorists than my W10 system hacked or messed up because UAC wasn't enabled. 

It still nannies the system completely disabled in the PROGRAM FILES folders and elsewhere, and, if a good 3rd party AV in is place it will make your life far more complicated than needed if enabled.


Of course if you do sh*t like this:





And this...






If that is the case then you are better off leaving UAC enabled and also at the highest level as well as installing the latest paid PRO version of Malwarebytes and make sure it runs with Windows boot. (not required otherwise, just periodic manual system scans with the free version)


If not.. Get over it and quit being paranoid..   There are some items that can be curtailed as well as curtailing WU updates till you allow them and stopping driver updates in WU completely, but you will give yourself an ulcer trying to feel privacy has to be 100% because there are simply some things you can't stop in W10.

Furthermore, if you install Google Chrome, or any Google application, you will tracked, whacked and used far more (to this date) than anything Microsoft ever dreamed up in the background.

Be careful of automated privacy programs...   they can afford good desired results but also may afford a change you may not like after the fact and if you don't know which setting to restore in the GUI, as the software says: You must have System Restore enabled in order to recover.

As for process explorer..  excellent tool in the right hands,..   can be an extremely virtual paranoia obsessive compulsive bad tool LOL in the wrong or CS uneducated hands


Here are a few really great ad blockers for MS Edge:



You can install them both at the same time in MS Edge for maximum coverage, although in AdBlock you will need to access the settings and disable: Allow Acceptable Ads but sometimes those two applications can interfere with some websites and must be disabled for that address. You have to make that call as it happens and set the apps in the browser accordingly for the site in question.

You can also block 3rd party cookies in MS Edge as well as set the history and cache to flush on exit

I'm not going to hold hands and take warm showers with anyone around all this. I have said more now than ever intended to swill into.. the Google search website itself can be your friend but also take note about anything installed directly in a app by Google....




There is very little one needs to do to optimize W10 other than the privacy and apps nonsense as well as establishing a group policy for WU updates to report but not install, shutting down BS 'Task Scheduler" Customer experience or other diagnostic crap, and, never allow update drivers in WU. You can use Ask Woody to see if installing the latest WU patches are OK: AskWoody

If you don't know what you are doing in services or otherwise...  don't fcuk with it or you may end up worse than where you started. Of course that is also how the term 'learning curve' came to be and sometimes fcuking up, is beneficial. LOL

Unless of course you are in a real cockpit


Then sh*t get's REAL, fast!  


"Trust me, I know what I'm talkin about"  



Big smile
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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-22-2021 at 1:13pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Virtual paranoia will become a problem if you can't get over certain data collection you can never stop with W10

The recovery partition is ONLY NEEDED IF you do not shut down system restore for the drive(s) and a 'major system" crash occurs Otherwise and if you wish to use SR that partition must remain untouched. It restores the latest version of Windows and then SR overlays the last image after a change.




There is very little one needs to do to optimize W10 other than the privacy and apps nonsense as well as establishing a group policy for WU updates to report but not install, shutting down BS 'Task Scheduler" Customer experience or other diagnostic crap, and, never allow update drivers in WU. You can use Ask Woody to see if installing the latest WU patches are OK: AskWoody



Thanks for the inputs Nick.

No virtual Paranoia here....just trying to get rid of CPU load for stuff I dont need. (like we did with Win7)

Like HDD indexing and RGB lights junk, and ASUS/Intell bloatware etc.

But great to know not much optimizing is required :-)


I just found out that deleting the Win10 recovery partition is not a smart move.
(Learning by doing here....so dont kill me!)
Because..
The third party Diskimage solution I purchased could not create a bootable disk without the recovery partition.

I needed to reinstal Win10 anyway, which I just did, and left this partition alone.


The group policy thing, for stopping automatic Win 10 updates, was new for me Thumbs Up

I found and used the info here:








Rob
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PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

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777simmer View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2021 at 6:25am
I found another interesting article.
It is a bit old (2014) and was written for Win7/8 but it just confirms again that leaving Windows System Restore enabled is a good idea (better than disabling it).

copy/paste:


Storage Optimizer will defrag an SSD once a month if volume snapshots are enabled. This is by design and necessary due to slow volsnap copy on write performance on fragmented SSD volumes. It’s also somewhat of a misconception that fragmentation is not a problem on SSDs. If an SSD gets too fragmented you can hit maximum file fragmentation (when the metadata can’t represent any more file fragments) which will result in errors when you try to write/extend a file. Furthermore, more file fragments means more metadata to process while reading/writing a file, which can lead to slower performance. 

As far as Retrim is concerned, this command should run on the schedule specified in the dfrgui UI. Retrim is necessary because of the way TRIM is processed in the file systems. Due to the varying performance of hardware responding to TRIM, TRIM is processed asynchronously by the file system. When a file is deleted or space is otherwise freed, the file system queues the trim request to be processed. To limit the peek resource usage this queue may only grow to a maximum number of trim requests. If the queue is of max size, incoming TRIM requests may be dropped. This is okay because we will periodically come through and do a Retrim with Storage Optimizer. The Retrim is done at a granularity that should avoid hitting the maximum TRIM request queue size where TRIMs are dropped.


from here:

Rob
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2021 at 8:38pm

Between the..   You can't delete or not have the System Recovery partition and restore an image


and the...  You can't have system restore disabled to TRIM a SSD correctly


Originally posted by 777simmer 777simmer wrote:

but it just confirms again that leaving Windows System Restore enabled is a good idea (better than disabling it).




And in another thread where it was suggested that HCI Memtest doesn't need all threads to test memory properly and should be on low priority but that part you posted was DELETED by you after I outlined the correct way and what you said was incorrect....


This time nothing gets edited


Originally posted by 777simmer 777simmer wrote:

And about not wanting to be condescending

Wink



Don outlined the correct use of TRIM in Windows10, I confirmed it and your issue/assumption that you can not restore a W10 NVMe SSD using a proper image backup with the system recovery partition deleted as well as system restore disabled is also, nonsense. 


You simply don't know how to do it. Nothing wrong with not knowing!   Takes practice sometimes. Could be a few issues along the way that need to be hammered out. 

What is wrong is... posting things like the above here in a way that looks like it is or could be correct, when isn't.




Money where my mouth is....   Big smile

Just for giggles..  and just for fun, I went ahead and manually deleted the system recovery partition that was there for years just like you did and split the space between C/D using 3rd party partition software, then made a new system full image ...

Windows10 backup app- ...  Go To Backup Restore for Windows 7 at the bottom - Create a system Image, select my mechanical backup drive as the target -  backup the partitions selected (plus I manually added my D drive partition to that list that is on the NVMe too). Let it run.

I did not have to include the Samsung NVMe "D" partition because it not part of Windows10 and the contents are backed up using a 3rd party data duplication software called "Synchredible" (the PAID pro version, not free) on a regular automatic schedule for off hours to backup mechanical drives. Which means I should be able to simply recover my Windows NVMe and then after, repartition a D drive and copy/past the files from my latest duplication of them...  adding 'D' to the system image was more simplistic so there were no hoops to jump through with drive letters later and if the data was older, just delete and overwrite it because the partition would be there and not need creation with drive letters being out of place in this recovery scenario. 



At the end of the image backup operation the system asked in a popup box if I wanted to create a recovery disk...  I SELECT NO because that can lock me out of certain recovery situations down the road. 


The leap of faith..   trial by fire  Big smile

I then secure erased my entire Samsung NVMe SSD, C, D which included FSX and P3Dv4/5 with addons, and has not had System Restore enabled on it since day 1 using Samsung magician to create a USB boot drive to secure erase the entire Samsung NVMe drive.


Which means if this doesn't work, LOLLOLLOL   whoah  ..





I will be on my laptop after this because in my current situation I would never be able to reinstall Windows10 with a 2 year old setup/settings/updates and installed software back to where it is today. 

That's putting your money where your mouth is for sure! Big smile



And then I proceeded to...

Restore that new created image using a 'new' booted from DVD Windows10 x64 DVD created with the latest Media Creation Software downloaded from MS (since my original W10 install has been updated for 2 years) I made a new DVD using the MS downloaded software and the latest W10 to make that W10 x64 DVD before I did this!!     and on boot 'press any key to boot to DVD...  selecting NEXT at the language screen and then ... REPAIR MY COMPUTER at the bottom of the next screen and then> OPTIONS   -   RESTORE FROM AN IMAGE 


In that recover from image operation which FOUND my image backup on the external SATA port drive without browsing..  In the next operation in the image recovery GUI screens was to FIRST install a driver for my OCZ PCIe SSD (browse to it) so it would be seen correctly, then deselect any drives that were not targets, other than the Samsung SSD and the OCZ PCie SSD which is a very older SSD that has the "I" drive partition where my Windows page file and WinTEMP\UserTEMP directories are located to cut down writes on the NVMe SSD (just like I said in the W7 bible thread)....  and then I disabled under the ADVANCED button in that recovery GUI both the automatic reboot when finished as well as the check the disk for errors option because certain SSD models might not like that.


It all went just ducky Big smile     if it didn't I would be screwed right now for a reinstall which would not take place and I would be posting from my LT.

I am typing this from that completely restored system now. It had no system restore running for years and I duplicated the manual delete of the system recovery partition just for farts and giggles like you did. I made a new system image after that and made sure I had the latest full install W10 DVD burned to use for its recovery console.


I will get into the trenches and potentially risk and get just as dirty as anyone else before I would post what was said, works. There may be some issue you need to work out but it worked a champ here.


No one is going to walk you through something like this 1-2-3-4-a-b-c-d    things like this are user/system specific and sometimes require a trial and error learning curve.

Reads to me you might still have some work to do in order to run without SR or the recovery partition, or.. just leave it alone and move forward, as is.


Advice at this point: Leave system restore and the system recovery partition alone and you will simply have to take the disk and CPU hit from those systems over time because for some reason, you don't know what you are doing and you don't understand it. 

Unless of course you can stop all this assumption nonsense and spend the time and get it right before you go installing everything to be sure your recovery path works. You should make sure Windows is fully updated and you have a latest W10 DVD or bootable USB for the task.


There may be a 2TB limit to the internal Windows 7 ISO recovery method I outline above. I know other 3rd party offerings may not invoke such a limit, however, as long as the total space shown by the W10 backup > W7 image - the total partitions being backed up, do not exceed 2TB in total between all the partitions saved (it shows you the disk space about to be used in the make a system image app before you select to continue), and, the W10 x64 boot disk can see all the drives in the system needed on recovery... and you set the checkboxes right in the recovery console for image restore...  it should work just fine.





Past that, posting that link above about TRIM requiring SR after being specifically answered by the experts here that makes that outdated link information above total bullsh*t, tells me you need to go back to flight school because you are now questioning the experts who already answered you on that subject, quite clearly. If it required SR you would have been told that by the experts, at that time.



And please don't post anymore bright ideas about memory testing, SR, imaging, or SSD TRIM in a fashion that suggests the information is accurate, unless you know for a fact it is true.




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