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chik View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 1:02pm
Wow! there is a lot of information lately. Thanks for the updates and links. The choice now between 9700K and the 9900K is really difficult with multiple differences of CPU structure. I wish we were at least 4 months down the road so that we had a bit of a track record to go by.
   On another note, I have chosen this MB which is, as far as I can, tell fairly future proof. While reading and shopping for ram, I have noticed that some ram specifies compatibility with Z370 chips but only a couple (that I have found) specify Z390, such as this. Should I be concerned with that?

Edit: I think I found the answer to the compatibility question:

As long as I keep within the "300" series parameter.
Maximus XI Hero Z390, i9-9900K@5.3G, NH-DH15, GTX 1080FE, VGA SuperNOVA 1000 Watt, G.SKILL Ripjaws V 16GB, Samsung 970 PRO 512GB, Vast 3440X1440
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 3:30pm
I don't know about this 'special' z390 DDR4. That reads to be a bit more of a marketing move for a money grab. I would look at the MB memory QVL list and see if it specifies some 'special' memory for z390.
 
As for the memory, honestly today I would probably look at the QVL list and pick from that, THEN go to GSKILL and make sure their site confirms the same model memory for the same model motherboard. Using both means the MB company and GSkill have tested.
 
... unless you want to pay-n-play
 
I do not see major advantages with DDR4 going any higher than 4000-4300 on C17-17-17 memory. The amount of positive change is minuscule compared to the cost and usually requires a good knowledge of tinkering.  
 
If you are looking for 32GB it is possible they may NOT recommended DS and use SS instead, (Single/Double) meaning no DS 16x2 Samsung and instead SS 4x8 Samsung. If that is what they list I would go that direction over any of this SUPER SPEED - mumbo jumbo
 
Look @ DDR4 4133 Samsung @ C17-17-17-(32 to 38)    That will probably run over 600 for a 32GB kit but at least its not 1000+ like that stuff you linked above LOL
 
Keep it @ 1.4v MAX too. That should slide you right into 40ns or less and is more than enough speed/capacity
 
 
 
Also, make sure to go through the MB manual and understand what PCIe slots share with what. Usually when you use the #3 slot for PCIe SSD you lose SATA ports, or, I have seen some not only do that but kill off another PCIe x1 port. Some will drop to 1x and 2x if certain SATA ports are in use and some might even drop with a x16 GPU in slot 1.
 
I don't know about that board so do review the 'shares' carefully. That is usually how they 'gotcha' and you must move to another selection (expense) LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 4:07pm
If you question that z370 to z390 thing, then perhaps you should wait.
 
 
I don't see where DDR4 memory that is designed on z370 is going to be different on a z390 and have read nothing about that but being so new it may be possible these memory companies are all hoping to move their old stock and replace it without a lot of fanfare.
 
Again, you are in RULE #1 territory LOL and playing with the high rollers
 
In a few months all this stuff will probably be revealed and any got'chas along with them.
 
I have had my share of those over the years. Beer
 
 
You are going into Xmas too and these prices are not going to get cheaper till after the holidays. They are going to rely on supply and demand and as soon as this stuff hits the shelves and fly's off, those prices are not going to drop, and could get worse.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 4:45pm
I just got the skinny on that z390 memory claim...
 
Real funny how they pulled that....
 
 
 
=================================================
 
Supported Only by Select ASUS Z390 Motherboards
In cooperative development with ASUS, the Double Capacity UDIMM technology in the Trident Z RGB DC series memory kits is only supported on the three latest ASUS Z390 chipset motherboards at launch: ROG Z390 MAXIMUS XI APEX, ROG Maximus XI Gene, and ROG STRIX Z390-I GAMING. Previously, motherboards designed with only 2 memory slots only allow a maximum of 32GB (16GBx2) to be installed, but with the new DC technology, it's now possible to install the maximum supported capacity of 64GB on these 2-DIMM motherboards.
 
==========================================
 
It is partially true only for GSkill's new 32GB*2 (64GB kit) that have that restriction because they have only been TESTED on 3 Asus motherboards
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
That has nothing to do with you unless you want 64GB with 2 sticks, OR, you want their new SUPER DUPER high speed overpriced kits simply because they have NOT tested them on anything else.
 
 
I read the whole thing as a pure marketing campaign geared to push prices up on something being released 'suggesting" its ONLY for "z390" just in time for the holiday season.
 
If that were true, how can they have tested and sell the z390 boards today?? 
 
SLICK
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 4:58pm
I" read the whole thing as a pure marketing campaign geared to push prices up on something being released 'suggesting" its ONLY for "z390" just in time for the holiday season.
 
If that were true, how can they have tested and sell the z390 boards today"

Well that's kind of what I thought when I was reading these announcements. It's kinda like they were telling us what they found yesterday on products that aren't put in the window 'till tomorrow!Disapprove

I'm not only learning a bit about computers but also getting wise to marketing wiseguysOuch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 6:14pm
Originally posted by chik chik wrote:

I" read the whole thing as a pure marketing campaign geared to push prices up on something being released 'suggesting" its ONLY for "z390" just in time for the holiday season.
 
If that were true, how can they have tested and sell the z390 boards today"

Well that's kind of what I thought when I was reading these announcements. It's kinda like they were telling us what they found yesterday on products that aren't put in the window 'till tomorrow!Disapprove

I'm not only learning a bit about computers but also getting wise to marketing wiseguysOuch
 
 
The one you linked was the SECOND news story they released on Monday the 8th of this month. I can see reading that and the back link how you thought memory may need to be exclusive to z390.
 
When you read the FIRST release about the 32GB and how it is only 'currently' being tested on 3 Asus z390 boards, then the penny drops and the rest is made very clear.
 
Just for giggles I went and checked the QVL for that motherboard... 
 
Page 38, all the Samsung DDR4 4133 @ 17-17-17 options. They are all SS so for 32GB its 8*4
 
 

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR

32GB(8GB*4)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17Q-32GTRG

32GB(8GB*4)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17Q-32GTRS

32GB(8GB*4)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17Q-32GTZSW

32GB(8GB*4)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17Q-32GTZKK

32GB(8GB*4)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

 
 
And these are the 16GB options @ 8*2
 

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17D-16GTZR

16GB(8GB*2)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17D-16GTRG

16GB(8GB*2)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17D-16GTRS

16GB(8GB*2)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17D-16GTZSW

16GB(8GB*2)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

G.SKILL

F4-4133C17D-16GTZKK

16GB(8GB*2)

SS

Samsung

-

17-17-17-37

1.4V

 
 
 
The only 16GB kit I could find on the MB QVL and at the GSkill site AND listed on parts sites is:  F4-4133C17D-16GTZR
 
But, whoops!   its not available and out of stock
 
 
 
Couldn't find it anywhere although I didn't spend hours looking..
 
 
 
In the 32GB list, only these matched QVL/GSkill and parts houses: F4-4133C17Q-32GTZR
 

And guess what...

 
 
 
 
No dice..  but many of those memory kits listed in the Asus QVL have been discontinued with the exception of 2 and those are 'out of stock'
 
 
 
So in my opinion, they are getting ready to spring a big egg on the market. They are hoping people go out and buy the other slower high timing stuff, and if it works and the person doesn't understand memory performance, great!!...  if it doesn't, well no worries the new z390 high performance lineup will take care of you!
 
BULL!
 
I did not look for other manufactures on that memory.
 
 
 
 
 
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If you find yourself in a bind...  and these memory companies spring the 800-1000 dollar whack job here soon...   here is an option and since its from Newegg it can be returned (check before purchase the return policy on it)
 
 
I cant promise this will work, however for the price compared to others 2*8GB DDR4 4133 CL18-18-18   https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820331244
 
I would prefer that be CL17-17-17     but for what they 'currently' list for 'out of stock' DDR4 4000 C17-17-17 ($350 average) that might be worth a shot for $239.00
 
 
Another option would be DDR4 3200 C14-14-14 
 
 
Bump the voltage up to 1.40 and see if they will run the same timing @ DDR4 3600. The Samsung B die usually does.
 
 
If it does work then you could use that to bide time and wait for the circus to leave town LOL  Then keep those sticks as backup and get the ones you really want. Its ALWAYS good to have backup parts.
 
 
 
Supply & Demand -
 
We are going into xmas season so supply may be high (at first) and demand high = $$$$$$
 
Right after the holidays the supply is usually very low but the demand still high - $$$$$$
 
Then you also have to watch out for someone else's DEFECTIVE RETURN they try and recycle in which you buy after the holiday on 'sale' and end up returning  LOL $$$$$$ 
 
Prices usually start dropping around mid to end of February, then the March electronics conventions come around and all the hype on new releases drives prices back up for a few months.
 
That's why I started doing my builds during summer instead of 0-DAY. The time of year when everyone is outside playing instead of inside on computers. It may not be the optimum time for 0-DAY NEW release stuff, but it usually allows reasonable cost options and by then I figure out the hardware BS and usually don't get burned, at least not like I did building on PRE-RELEASE ordering. Wink
 
 
There should be enough info here to get you going..
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-22-2018 at 8:01pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:


 
I would prefer that be CL17-17-17     but for what they 'currently' list for 'out of stock' DDR4 4000 C17-17-17 ($350 average) that might be worth a shot for $239.00
 
Another option would be DDR4 3200 C14-14-14 
 
 
Bump the voltage up to 1.40 and see if they will run the same timing @ DDR4 3600. The Samsung B die usually does.
 


Ha,...I actually had those two in my favorites folder. I decided on the second option. After reading a few reviews I just sensed that the G.Skills were a better choice although it was very close. They are essentially the same thing as far I can tell. PLUS!

I bought them last night as they had 2 hours to go before the sale was over only to check after work today and see that they were on sale again,...for another $20 bucks cheaper! Scoundrels. Got on the phone and straightened that out asap.

You suggested that I might opt for another choice down the road that being CL17-17-17 , but would I really gain much,.....vs money spent,....again?
I'm thinking that since we run open world games (simulators), I'm fairly sure it would be minimal.
   I sure have learned a lot this past week!
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-23-2018 at 2:53am
Originally posted by chik chik wrote:

I'm thinking that since we run open world games (simulators), I'm fairly sure it would be minimal.
 
hmmm  wrong
 
Lets back up for moment, Intel and their be'atch benchmark company fudged benchmarks between themselves and AMD with the 9000 series processor by using 'memory timing'
 
If memory timing isn't that important as has been thrown all over the internet and is also used at memory manufacture websites, .....why was it used and successful in that goal?
 
Here is a post about that..  grab a coffee or beer, and read   https://www.simforums.com/forums/xmp_topic60552_post385831.html#385831
 
 
As a top dawg I always go for the 40ns or lower memory option, and yes it costs but can be achieved with a lower speed memory product and with intimate computer science knowledge unless you are lucky enough to buy a motherboard and memory that the board allows a 'ONE CLICK' dumduk option.
 
I think you are on the right track now. If it was me based on the reports that are available 'today' I would probably buy a 8700K which is known for 5GHz without any modification,...  and I would delid it allowing a far higher full 6 core clock in compare.
 
Since I have the MB/chipset that will always allow me to move into a 9000 series (even if they go WHOOOPS! 4 months from now and say 'here is a refresh after our duckup' LOL)
 
I would also go for the 2080ti. Without other memory options, the same memory you bought but I would also work that memory myself to obtain the highest performance. I might even play with that TEAM GROUP option because the cost is so low and it can be returned.
 
The PCIe M.2 on the heat spreader card...  that's the ticket. Those wafers get hotter than hades and if you mount them to the stainless AIO, they heatsink to it. This motherboard small 'side slot' nonsense for M.2 is a joke.
 
So you are on the right track now..   good luck and may the force be with you!
 
 
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https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i9-9900K-Desktop-Processor-Unlocked/dp/B005404P9I/ref=ya_st_pd_dx_rtpb_2/138-5301560-2273224?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B005404P9I&pd_rd_r=ad31138b-4ae4-4c3f-8202-d26665150bcd&pd_rd_w=kFtpW&pd_rd_wg=N3FCL&psc=1&refRID=19T35RCKSCHXKY0B5WYX

Just dropped 80 Bucks ! Oh No!!!Shocked
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-24-2018 at 1:12pm
Not sure what you mean...   did you pre-order it?  It shows unavailable here
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yeah, that's just me being a smart-ass. They are unavailable at this time but you can still buy them and they'll contact you when they're ready to ship
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Well, I finally got all the parts in. Everything went pretty well.....but....naturally there always has to be at least one in the litter that has to be a brat!

The ssd/adaptor listed below...
states...

"Mailiya M.2 NGFF PCIe based SSD works in main board PCIe x4 bus slot."
states...

1 x M.2_1 Socket 3 with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280 (supports PCIE 3.0 x4 and SATA modes)*
1 x M.2_2 Socket 3 with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 (supports PCIE 3.0 x4 mode)

...yet the slots that are on the MB are
PCIE 3.0 x1
PCIE 3.0 x2
PCIE 3.0 x3
There is no PCIE 3.0 x4
Also the 3 slots on the MB are to short to accommodate the adapter. 
....or am I missing something?

PS: so Nick...I decided after all to go for the 9900K! I figured
1) after buying the other pieces and saving the Amazon points, plus a small gift card I had lying around, I scored it for $307.00.
2) No delidding
3) Who knows what will happen over the next 3, 5, 7 years with cores/HT/cache and so on (future proof as much as possible)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2018 at 9:17pm
You are missing something
 
(supports PCIE 3.0 x4 and SATA modes)
(supports PCIE 3.0 x4 mode)
 
They are not referring to 'slots'. x4 means the PCIe SPEED of the port ASSUMING you are not SHARING with another port. You must look in the manual for what SLOT and what SATA port shares with the others when in use.
 
On other words, lets say PCIe slot 3 SHARES with THE FIRST SMALL PCIe slot x1 and when PCIe slot 1 has a card in it, PCI3 slot 3 is REDUCED IN SPEED from x4 to x1
 
Its the same as saying: IF YOU USE 2 VIDEO CARDS THE SLOTS SHARE AND EACH CARD WILL RUN x8-x8 INSTEAD OF x16-x16
 
So look on page 1-8 of the manual..   that is the PCIe SHARE chart
 
What does it show?  In reference to PCIe SLOT#3 It says that if you have hard drives on SATA ports SATA6G_5 and SATA6G_6, your M.2 will SHARE resources with those drives.
 
However! Even with that stated and NO hard drives in the outlined SATA ports..., if you intend to run PCIe Slot #3 with a AIG card m.2 slug on it, then go into the BIOS and under the SATA CONFIGURATION manually disable SATA6G_5 and SATA6G_6. This assures regardless of all else, SATA 5/6 will not remove any performance from using a m.2 with card in the 3rd (long port) PCIe slot.
 
 
SOLUTION: DO NOT USE SATA6G_5 and SATA6G_6 for hard drives when PCIe SLOT x3 is being used for M.2 SSD but DO manually disable those SATA ports in the BIOS.
 
You must also be sure the BIOS is set to allow x4 operation in PCIe SLOT x3 after the above is verified
 
 
get it?
 
 
 
NOW..  that being said, if you are not looking to use the M.2 drive with a PCIe adapter in slot 3 (based on your links and parts you do!) and instead intend to use the motherboard M.2 slot then look at page 1-25 in the manual...  If you use the TOP m.2 socket that means port SATA6G_2 is DISABLED
 
see how this works?
 
 
 
Use of a m.2 that is x4 able and run it off a PCIe video size port.. works, as long as nothing else SHARES resources with that slot.
 
 
I personally think running m.2 off the supplied motherboard flat port on the motherboard itself is a joke. Those high performance SSD thin wafers get HOT and as such a good PCIe AIG/AIC adapter card that is metal base and/or has a heatsink option designed to go into a 3rd or whatever PCIe video slot.... is a far better long term solution if you want performance with long term fault tolerance.
 
 
 
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Thanks Nick!
   I have  much better grasp tonight than I did yesterday...for sure.
I also found this which made things quite clear as well.


IF YOU USE 2 VIDEO CARDS THE SLOTS SHARE AND EACH CARD WILL RUN x8-x8 INSTEAD OF x16-x16
...is that why SLI isn't really all it was cracked up to be? (kinda getting a little off topic but curious just the same)
lastly, I have a HD that I would like to continue using for storage but I am just a bit "scratchy head" about.
if you say I should disable the Sata6G ports 5&6, what can be utilized in this case?
From reading my manual it appears that all Sata ports are 6G so I have ports 1,2,3,and 4 available? Since 5&6 will be off?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2018 at 6:59am
system booted up okay. So bloody quiet. Haven't had much time to monkey with it. Once I start tinkering with the overclock which I don't think we'll be very extreme. I'll keep you posted.
Just having a bugger of a time trying to install the new Asus drivers without a mouse! But that shouldn't be a huge problem to overcome.
So quiet!
Nick, I really appreciate you getting me to this point. Your knowledge is priceless

One more side note
Even though I was able to boot into windows from what I'm hearing or reading I don't think I'll be able to install a new copy of window. I think this board is not Windows 7 compatible!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-30-2018 at 7:13pm
...is that why SLI isn't really all it was cracked up to be? (kinda getting a little off topic but curious just the same)
 
No. SLi does work for higher AA filtering and it has gotten somewhat better with P3D. The issue is the ESP render engine was never really designed for SLi to take full advantage.
 
 
if you say I should disable the Sata6G ports 5&6, what can be utilized in this case?
 
 
Make sure you know which ports those are by looking at the motherboard manual and simply disable them in the BIOS...   what ever is left you can use for SSD/HDD as they are the same speed as 5/6
 
 
You must run Windows 10 on that board/system unless you are really savvy at working hacks. Windows 7 would not be a good idea for you to mess with.
 
 
 I don't understand..   'without a mouse'..    you don't have a USB mouse there to plug into the system? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2018 at 12:19am
Make sure you know which ports those are by looking at the motherboard manual and simply disable them in the BIOS...   what ever is left you can use for SSD/HDD as they are the same speed as 5/6

Yup, that was easy.


You must run Windows 10 on that board/system unless you are really savvy at working hacks. Windows 7 would not be a good idea for you to mess with.

No, W7 only has a short life left anyway. went with W10 Pro.

 I don't understand..   'without a mouse'..    you don't have a USB mouse there to plug into the system?

Well, when I first booted up the new PC, I was able to boot into my old C-drive...W7, but the mouse wasn't responding. A quick google (late in the evening) revealed a hint that this board is not liking W7. Tonight with another quick google on how to navigate with keyboard only, I went into the Asus driver disk and tried to install some drivers and got a "not compatible, blah blah blah". Jumped in the car and headed out o Best Buy!
A bit of tinkering to get it looking a bit like W7 and everything seems great. Ran a quick Prime 95 and the cores spooled up to 4.7 -/+ with temps around 48C.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wheelsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2018 at 12:42am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

The PCIe M.2 on the heat spreader card...  that's the ticket. Those wafers get hotter than hades and if you mount them to the stainless AIO, they heatsink to it. This motherboard small 'side slot' nonsense for M.2 is a joke.
  

Nick,
What is a heat spreader card?  Are they on the motherboards or are they an extra card to plug the SSD's into?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2018 at 9:45am
No, W7 only has a short life left anyway. went with W10 Pro.
 
Unfortunately that mindset is why we are all F.... ducked
 
Just kidding! LOL
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Nick,
What is a heat spreader card?  Are they on the motherboards or are they an extra card to plug the SSD's into?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
If you do not know what that is,...   I suggest hiring a IT professional
 
and no, I am not kidding Big smile
 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
EDIT: Was not trying to be condescending
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wheelsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2018 at 5:37pm
Thanks Nick,
When you said heat spreader card I thought you had found something new and improved from the old heatsink. Wink

Sorry I wasn't more clear. Old timers disease. Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-01-2018 at 11:59pm
No problem..   I was being a bit grumpy
 This is what you are looking for, or something like it with one port instead of two
 
 
 
 
I believe that one supports 2 M.2 sticks. One being x4 PCIE and the other will run SATA. It doesn't have to be that card but something like it
 
The technical term is: PCIe x4 NVMe M.2 SSD Adapter
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wheelsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-03-2018 at 6:34pm
Thanks Nick,
So these are better than the using the heatsink on a Rog Maximus X Code board? https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813119045
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-04-2018 at 5:58pm
I don't know..   I would have to research what they use for the dedicated M.2 slots.
 
Does it come with a attachable heatsink?
 
Are the dedicated slots placed on the board with a heat-spreader under them?
 
What are the SHARES? using the dedicated M.2 ports vs the 3rd large PCIe slot?
 
SHARING: Just looking at the specs at Newegg, which can be dangerous since I always advise obtaining the motherboard manual from the manufacture BEFORE purchasing and review what shares with what on the board... this is where you can get bit in the arse fast if you don't plan right.
 
From Newegg ROG Maximus X Code features list:
 
The PCIe x4_3 slot shares bandwidth with PCIe x1_3. The PCIe x4_3 is default set at x2 mode.
 
That means if you use the longer PCIe x4_3 port which is x4 in speed and where the PCIe x4 NVMe M.2 SSD Adapter plugs into, and, you place a PCIe card in PCIe x1_3, your x4 M.2 is neutered to x2.  Not good. So if you use the adapter no card can be used in the PCIe x1_3 port on the motherboard and most likely you need to make sure the BIOS is set to run that 3rd PCIe port @ x4.
 
 
Then there are the SATA port shares with the M.2 ports AND the types of M.2 wafers supported:
 
1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M Key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (both SATA & PCIE mode)*

1 x M.2 Socket 3, with M key, type 2242/2260/2280/22110 storage devices support (PCIE 3.0 x4 mode)**
 
That says to me there is only 1 dedicated M.2 port on this board for x4 PCIe speed and the board direct M.2 port supports either SATA mode or PCIe mode on that slot which again you must set in the BIOS to run the correct format.
 
...and then there are the notes about that:

* When the M.2_1 Socket 3 is operating in SATA mode, SATA port 1 will be disabled.
 
That means if you use the dedicated M.2 port and use it in SATA mode, nothing can be plugged into the standard SATA6 port 1 on the board. (No HDD on that port)
 

** When the M.2_2 Socket 3 is operating in PCIe 3.0 x4 mode, SATA ports 5 and 6 will be disabled.
 
That means if you use the dedicated M.2 port and use it in PCIe x4 mode, nothing can be plugged into the standard SATA6 ports 5 and 6 on the board. (No HDD on those 2 ports) but PCIe x1_3 is not affected and is available. (I ASSUME since they make no mention of it here)
 
 
 
NOW, these are ASSUMPTIONS based on what I read. These motherboard companies can be very SLICK about all this! I have seen their manuals state the same thing as shown above but in use the manual is either wrong or 'unclear' but I would trust the manual AND I would probably go to different review sites that may test the board and see if there are any 'gotchas! involved.
 
 
To put it all together from above and I ASSUME the information is correct from Newegg that means you have ALL of your SATA6 ports available for drives (SSD or mechanical) when you use the 3rd large PCIe x4_3 but simply lose the use of PCIe x1_3 slot.
 
If you use the dedicated M.2 slot and you want it running the full x4 speed, you lose 2 SATA6 ports (5 and 6)
 
This is all typical in how they pull this sales crap. People don't understand for the most part and end up shafted because they discover after the fact a certain setup they planed WONT WORK at full speed potential.
 
 
So for me on this specific board, its a NO BRAINER..  IF I have no PCIe x1 card that must be placed in the x1_3 slot because it wont fit anywhere else,.....   Buy the NVMe x4 adapter that has a better heat dissipation, some come with top heatsinks too, some don't..    and make sure the PCIe x4 slot I intend to use wont get neutered to x2 by not using the PCIe x1_3 shared slot.
 
I keep all my SATA6 ports that way too.
 
It also leaves me yet another option for down the road..  If I am not using SATA6 5 & 6 and I find a solid use and need for another full speed M.2 drive, THEN the motherboard M.2 can be used and I have 2 of them running full speed.
 
 
SPECIAL NOTE: Do not throw the hardware away you don't use from the motherboard or add on card. Some motherboards use special threaded screws and sizes that you CANT GET at Home Depot. So what ever hardware is left over from a adapter card or a motherboard supplied m.2 setup, DONT THROW IT OUT and keep it safe for possible later use. Obtaining replacement hardware that works may not be very easy.
 
Same goes with throwing away 'extra' or leftover parts for any computer device, including power supplies... https://www.simforums.com/forums/gpu-cable-generic_topic60659_post385997.html#385997
 
 
 
WARNING ABOUT OTHER MOTHERBOARDS: Some boards can SHARE the x4 PCIe with SATA ports -AND- PCIe slots. YOU have to READ and define that before planning a build and buying the parts. What I posted above was for this specific board, only.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wheelsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-05-2018 at 10:51pm
Thank you Nick for the very informative post.  I would be happy with knowing just 1/4 of what you do.
The first M2 slot is under the "Republic of Gamers" heat sink.
The second M2 slot is down on the bottom right with no heat sink attached.

I will download the manual and try to make some sense of it.

The more I read and re-read your post some of it is starting to sink in.

I checked out some other websites about the board and decided to get the ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC). It has the exact same layout but with a few more goodies and a better rating.

Again thank you very very much. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 3:08pm
I made assumptions based on the Newegg feature list. If I take the time to download and read the entire motherboard manual, including the BIOS section and any updated flyers they include, I would have a far better understanding of the board.
 
As it is I would never buy a x4 PCIe SSD wafer and shove it into a M.2 SATA port, or, switch it to SATA in the BIOS if only one port were available. That being said the 1st m.2 port is useless to me. As for the 2nd, unless I knew for a fact that I will NEVER use SATA6 ports 5 -OR- 6 even a year or two from now, I would still obtain the PCIe x4 NVMe M.2 SSD Adapter and run it off the last x4 PCIe slot, assuming no other PCIe card would interfere.
 
 
If you use the motherboard M.2 port and install a OS or anything 'dedicated' on that stick where down the line a year from now you discover its needs to move because you now need SATA6 ports 5 -OR- 6 available;  Yous'a in BIG doo-doo dis time      LOL
 
 
Then there is the possibility of servicing or changing it out for larger one later. I can do a image of the SSD and store it, (offline or online depending on what is on the drive) then shut down and easily pop the adapter out of the PCIe slot and then work with that little card/wafer flat on a desk or tabletop...  where on the motherboard port, its usually not so easy to deal with. Pop the card back in the PCie slot, boot up and restore the image to the new stick.
 
No cussing at micro tiny screws dropping, missing the hole or cross-threading, or having to flip the tower on its side and work in a deep box with poor lighting.
 
Some motherboards provide a small mount frame for the SSDs that works something like the PCIe NVMe adapter but much smaller and that works with the dedicated M.2 slot. Depending on how it is designed that means the wafer may not actually be sitting on any real solid surface for heat dissipation. Again, these items are defined best in the manual for the board.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 4:44pm
Coincidentlly I just bought the Maximus X Code. After I read that people were not successful trying to install Windows 7 on the new Z390 boards I bought a Z370 board that I at least had a chance of getting Windows 7 on. I wanted an Apex model but I couldn't find any so I got this one. With any luck it will be running an 8086.

There are two M2 ports on the board. One is under a fairly large 4mm (3/16") thick aluminum heatsink. The contact between the heatsink and the M2 storage card is via what looks like double sided sticky tape. I have my doubts how well this will transfer heat. The other M2 card sticks up perpendicular to the motherboard and is supported by a stamped metal bracket. This one at least is exposed to the airflow of the case on all sides so my gut tells me it will have better cooling than the one buried under the heatsink and sticky tape.

My current system is Intel SATA SSD. I haven't a clue what M2 is or PCIe x1,x2,x4, socket 3 etc. According to the box both ports are M.2 Socket 3 with M Key and PCIe x 4 mode. Its all Greek to me. Does this mean they are NVMe? I've got to educate myself on this new tech and buy storage next.

First I bought a 4k monitor, then I got a 1080ti because the 4k maxed out my 780GTX. Now my 3770k is holding back the 1080ti. I'm hoping everything will be fine after getting the 8086 system up and running. I'm back on the hamster wheel boys! LOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 5:36pm
NVMe is M.2 (M Key) PCIe x4
 
In order to use NVMe (full speed) you must purchase a NVMe x4 SSD gum-stick (usually known as M Key). The drive itself must be spec'd as a NVMe x4 PCIe. The socket it plugs into must also be spec'd or have the ability to run NVMe PCie x4
 
These stick drives can get hot and if you don't think the MB socket solution can provide adequate long term heat dissipation for longer life, and, you have a motherboard with a x4 PCIe video card slot available that will not share with another card/port, then the use of a PCIe x4 MVMe AIC card can help. The motherboard x4 slot must not share (or not have another device active) and the card itself must be rated, such as this one: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815636003
 
The slot on the board must support NVMe PCIe x4 and the SDD stick purchased must support it. That is why there can be price differences even though the stick 'looks' the same.
 
As for OS boot from..     that can be another tricky story. Some motherboards are designed to boot from one of the dedicated slots but not the other..   some can boot from both, some can boot from the PCIe x4 video card slot, others may not.
 
That is all part of discovery and reading the motherboard manual.
 
When it comes to the PCIe x4 slot (the last large video card slot) as long as the card and the stick are PCIe x4 it should work fine there, but booting from there may present a challenge.
 
I have a 2013 Z87 Sabertooth motherboard and boot just fine from that 3rd PCIe x4 video card slot with a RevoDrive 3 x2 which was the predecessor to the NVMe drives. It's up there in speed with the current NVMe sticks,.. still rocks today but I paid close to if not over 1000 dollars for it 7-8 years ago. It was considered a enterprise solid state disk solution.
 
I also modified RevoDrive 3 x2 and put a fan on the controller chip heatsink on the card. Probably one of the reasons it still rocks today Wink
 
 
 
Truth is, I have been enjoying the advantages of the drive speed and access time for over 7 years, even before I built the z87 Sabertooth with Haswell back in 2013,... but I paid through the nose to get it. 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 5:51pm
One last thing...
 
Times are changing but in the past in order to get the full advantage of NVMe x4 PCie, the OS MUST BOOT to the NVMe x4 PCIe be it a M.2 slot or a PCIe x4 video card slot.
 
That makes things a bit more difficult because if your OS is on that drive, can you fit a SIMULATOR install on it too?
 
I have my OS and my sims (FSX Box/FSX SE/P3D v3 and P3D v4 all on the x4 PCIe SSD RevoDrive card which is about the size of a medium size thin video card. Its not a gum-stick wafer.
 
 
 
So if you think you can put the OS on a standard SSD and the sim on a NVMe, it don't work like that. Ouch LOL You may need a smaller NVMe gum-stick in the motherboard M.2 for boot and installed typical programs, and another NVMe M.2 x4 PCIe RATED slot and gum-stick for the simulator.
 
That's another place the PCIe x4 video card slot adapter can come in very handy to have.
 
Now, I am basing what I said above on the technology as it was not long ago (2016). What I said is true based on that. They may have made changes where that is no longer a HUGE 'gotcha' and the OS can go on a standard SSD without neutering the NVMe drive.
 
You guys have to find that out.
 
Remember: a computer system is only as fast as the SLOWEST hard drive being used for the 'mission critical' purpose.
 
Dead storage drives and backup drives don't count. If your OS is on a standard HDD or a standard SSD your sim will not run full NVMe speed.
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------
 
QUOTE:
What you need to get NVMe
 
It’s possible to add an NVMe drive to any PC with an PCIe slot via a $25 adapter card. All recent versions of the major operating systems provide drivers, and regardless of the age of the system you will have a very fast drive on your hands. But there’s a catch.
 
To benefit fully from an NVMe SSD, you must be able to boot the operating system from it. That requires BIOS support. Sigh. Most older mainstream BIOSes do not support booting from NVMe and most likely, never will. There’s simply no benefit to the vendors to add it, and a very real downside: You’re unlikely to upgrade a system that’s been updated with NVMe unless you play PC games or do something truly CPU-intensive, like editing 2160p video.
 
.... read more there to continue
 
--------------------------------------------------------------
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 7:54pm
 
 
 
If it were me and a new build, I would probably go with a small NVMe x4 PCIe in the dedicated motherboard M.2 port and get a 1 or 2 TB NVMe x4 PCIe addon card for the x4 PCIe video card slot.
 
Reasons..
 
Not all motherboards will boot from the 3rd PCIe x4 video slot and I would want far more drive space than a OS with basic sim setup.
 
I would not want all my eggs in one basket. I would want to use mechanical drives as backups for all my NVMe drives. SSDs are volatile and when the go, they are far less likely to be recoverable than a mechanical drive, so what ever I do on NVMe SSD or standard SSD, I always keep 'UP TO DATE'  image backups of the entire drive(s) stored on mechanical drives.
 
 
I must have OS boot to NVMe x4 PCIe and I would think the modern motherboards supply that today on the dedicated M.2 port, (RTFM), so as long as the OS is booted NVMe, the file system and applications on on the adapter card will run with full NVMe support as well.
 
I have ALWAYS setup and moved the Windows and Users 'temp file' directories OFF of any SSD boot drive as well as Temporary Internet Files, Google Junk Caches, etc. This saves drastically on JUNK file WRITES to the SSD. The more writes performed on any SSD drive, the less drive life.
 
By porting that junk over to another drive the OS drive isn't going to be getting searing hot. Typically Windows update will see the Windows/User Temp directory move and port its download cache for updates to another disk automatically. Although the successfully completed and 'installed updates' will always live in the Windows folder at least the disk isn't being thrashed to download and install them.
 
 
So by making some smart choices around using 2 available NVMe x4 solutions with a newer motherboard, I can make full use of what the motherboard will allow and obtain all the benefits in my disk intensive applications as well as kill more CPU cycles wasted by waiting for file calls.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wheelsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 11:40pm
 
 
 
Sorry ... somehow I overwrote your post when I was editing mine below, but I did read yours!
 
Sorry!!  LOL   Embarrassed   
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2018 at 12:10am
As long as that 1st NVMe slot is bootable, and you wont be kicking a SATA port you need nor does it share with anything else.... 
 
 
AND
 
As long as the 3rd video PCIe slot is in fact x4 and is not sharing with any other card or device, I would say that is the way to go.
 
 
And make sure to use a good image backup program with large enough mechanical drives to duplicate those NVMe SSD's so if disaster strikes, you can replace them and restore the image.
 
You must ALSO make it a habit to run such backups at least once a week if you do a lot of updating/changing, and at least once month if you have gone through all the install and update nonsense a new install usually requires.
 
Don't rely on "System Restore"   You cant restore a disk when the disk the Windows restore file is on, is trashed. I would turn that crap off, obtain good image software, OR, use "Windows Backup" directly to make a SYSTEM IMAGE on another HDD, which is not a bad way to go for free!  You can also use that application to make image backups of the sim NVMe.
 
If you use Windows Backup, at the end of the backup when it prompts you to make a floppy or USB security key disk..   SAY NO.
 
 
You just need the mechanical disk space to retain them and can use the recovery system from a emergency Windows boot disk to put them all back in case of disaster.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2018 at 2:16pm
Nick, Thank you for all that. Your information and links have increased my knowledge of these NVMe and PCIe devices immensely. I can now somewhat understand what is written in my motherboard manual.

I was pretty impressed with my Intel SATA SSDs OS boot times over HDDs on my current system but it appears that these NVMe SSDs takes storage transfer speeds to quite a higher level. Do these help with scenery loading or is that bottleneck somewhere else in the system?

It appears that my board has two dedicated M2 slots for NVMe drives.

The first one operates in PCIe or SATA mode. If operated in SATA mode then SATA port 1 is disabled. Since I will operating in PCIe mode and not SATA mode I assume that I will not lose SATA Port 1.

The second one when operating in PCIe x 4 mode will disable SATA ports 5 & 6. I will be using PCIe x4 mode so I will lose those two SATA ports. The board has 6 SATA ports so I think I can live with the loss of 2.

There are two PCIe video card slots and a third PCIe x4 card slot plus three separate smaller PCIe x1 slots. It looks like I could use a third NVMe SSD in a PCIe adapter card in the PCIe x4 slot. Doing this would disable the associated PCIe x1 slot. There are two more PCIx1 slots so that doesn't seem to be a significant sacrifice.

I was planning on doing what you had suggested which was to have one NVMe SSD for the OS and another NVMe drive for the sims with a third large SATA HDD for download storage and backups.

There is no mention in the manual of putting the OS on a specific M2 slot so I have to assume that either will work. Now to pick some drives...currently I am looking at the Samsung 970 EVO and Western Digital Black but need to do more research



You wrote the windows bible as I was building my current system and it has been rock solid. If I am successful in getting Windows 7 on this new build I was going to follow the bible again. Is it still applicable to all the changes Microsoft has done to Windows 7 since then?

Thanks again,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2018 at 2:50pm
I don't know if you are going to be getting a z3x chipset motherboard fully running on W7. I don't think they list all the drivers and apps for W7 that they do for W10 and the prospect of being 100% successful without a good background in whacking problems and knowing when/where and what to do to and know things are working right.
 
 
Windows 7 hasn't changed so what was posted back then is exactly the same today.
 
 
 
As for the 1st M.2 port, does it say it is PCIe 3 x4 mode which is NVMe? and not just PCIe? It may be, but I would question what on the PCIe rail is lost when it is in use.
 
Check it out carefully.  You may find out what the MB manual says and what happens is different, or at least the way they word it sounds one way and then when you see what happens in real world use you realize something else..  
 
 
If it doesn't stomp on anything and it is a true NVMe then it may be a better choice for the OS gum-stick over trashing 2 SATA6 ports and use the PCIe slot with a adapter card for the larger gum-stick
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 2wheelsup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2018 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by 2wheelsup 2wheelsup wrote:

 
 
 
Sorry ... somehow I overwrote your post when I was editing mine below, but I did read yours!
 
Sorry!!  LOL   Embarrassed   
 
 
  NickN


Oh well, crap happens. Cry
Apology accepted. Big smile
Thanks again for all your valuable info and the time you spend helping others. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-07-2018 at 6:38pm
I know I am getting old when I hit the edit button on someone else's post thinking its mine.
 
Of course I do flip websites/forums/back and forth so its not like I was only reading/posting here.
I did answer you below that in response to what you posted.
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