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New Computer Time

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woodhick803 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodhick803 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New Computer Time
    Posted: February-07-2018 at 1:23pm
I am thinking it's about time I treated myself to a new flight sim computer.  I would be flying P3Dv4.xx with a large number of add-ons.  I suppose W-10 is my only choice for OS.  Please note:  I have no interest in building my own computer.  Please do not start down that path and waste both our times.  This computer would be a dedicated flight sim unit.  What  brand do you suggest?  We can discuss details at a later date.  I don't need too much detail at this point.  This may turn out to be simply a day dream.

Thanks guys
Jetline Hellfire GTO
Intel I7 960 quad core processor O/C'ed to 3.7GHz
Nvidia GeForce GTX570 1.2Gb video card
6 Gb Muskin DDR3 CL 6 RAM
300Gb VelociRaptor dedicated hard drive
Win 7 Home Premium
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 1:30pm
Woody...   hit up Jetline again
 
They still service Flightsim folks up though P3D 
 
tell him you want the works, they will supply it
 
 
Make sure its Intel z270 or z370 certified clocked by them to 4.5GHz, at least DDR4 2400 or higher memory and a Nvidia video card, I would go at least 1070...   1080ti if you are going to run 4K TV screen stuff
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woodhick803 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodhick803 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 1:55pm
Thanks Nick, I was just over there and hoped you would reply.  Now let me ask this:  can I upgrade my RAM and video card and buy time that way?

Jetline Hellfire GTO
Intel I7 960 quad core processor O/C'ed to 3.7GHz
Nvidia GeForce GTX570 1.2Gb video card
6 Gb Muskin DDR3 CL 6 RAM
300Gb VelociRaptor dedicated hard drive
Win 7 Home Premium
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-07-2018 at 5:01pm
Not with what you have now..
 
 
you need new wheels...  
 
 
 what you have now is like a 2009 VW and what you need is at least a 2017 Hyundai (the sports model)  and what you really need so you don't buy again for many years or wonder if you can do better a year from now is what I posted.
 
CPU/speed - no compromise (ok if he wont do 4.5, at least 4.3! especially with a Kaby or Coffee ! they are easy to clock) He will know what CPU cooler to use
 
Memory - alright this one is tough because anyone can sell you DDR4 3200 memory but with a timing of 18-18-18 or higher.... you may as well get DDR4 2400 15-15-15
 
However...  if you plan on a P3D system, be sure is 16GB (2x8GB) at the least. FSX/FSXSE then 8 is enough (2x4)
 
GPU - no compromise  GTX 1070 at the least. if you like large screen resolution and a lot of weather running P3D v4x+, then 1080ti
 
Hard drive - OS/FSXor P3D =  SSD  you can retain you Vrap for basic storage
 
 
 
Jetline should be able to set you up based on that, and I am NOT overstating the minimums. What I posted at minimum will keep you hog happy about as long as that 960 did (if you got it back in 2010)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 6:06am
Took a quick look at some of the Jetline systems and they appearantly, depending on the system, clock the 7700K up to 4.7 and the 8700K up to 5.0


My guess is they would need to buy binned chips to make those promises, hence the cost.
Or maybe they bin them themselves. That of course requires labor.
Hans

W7/64 Ultimate, FSX Gold, SB-E 3930K @ 4.7, Sabertooth X79, GTX580, 4x2GB G.Skill RipjawsZ @ 2133-9-11-10-28-1T, Corsair H110+Obsidian 900D,Seasonic P-1000, GEX, UTX, UT2, REX, S-Tech LC, NGX.
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woodhick803 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodhick803 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2018 at 7:09am
Thanks guys for the help.  Much appreciated.  My son-in-law builds and sells drag cars.  Their world has a saying, "speed costs, how fast do you want to go?".  Evidently I need to go faster indeed.
Jetline Hellfire GTO
Intel I7 960 quad core processor O/C'ed to 3.7GHz
Nvidia GeForce GTX570 1.2Gb video card
6 Gb Muskin DDR3 CL 6 RAM
300Gb VelociRaptor dedicated hard drive
Win 7 Home Premium
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chik View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-11-2018 at 9:04pm
Hello
   I hope it's ok that I hop onto the running boards and ride along on this thread.
   I am in pretty much the exact same situation as the OP. I built my system beck in 2010 ! I still cannot believe where 8 years has gone. With good advice and a little guidance I run my PC every day at 4.5G and it rarely coughs.

...I have upgraded my VC to a 1080 FE
Brand names would be a big help as well, especially for the CPU fan. I am worried about RAM vs FANOuch
Even though I don't fly much, I still game quite a bit, and my game of choice is still a CPU dependent platform much the same as FS.
This is the only place I feel secure with what I am advised to do. For that I am grateful.

PS: Budget is not an issue. No boasting intended.

PS: I tried the W10 upgrade, hated it!, read through a lengthy thread here, and decided that returning to W7 is my best option since I gathered that it should be a good option for at least 2 years,....hopefully double that.

Bill

Maximus XI Hero Z390, i9-9900K@5.3G, NH-DH15, GTX 1080FE, VGA SuperNOVA 1000 Watt, G.SKILL Ripjaws V 16GB, Samsung 970 PRO 512GB, Vast 3440X1440
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woodhick803 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote woodhick803 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 11:05am
Nick!  Upgraded computer will soon be ordered.  Most computer internals will be upgraded to your specs.  My power supply, case and a very few other things will transfer over, saving me a few bucks.  Jetline and Flight1 seems to work well together.
Jetline Hellfire GTO
Intel I7 960 quad core processor O/C'ed to 3.7GHz
Nvidia GeForce GTX570 1.2Gb video card
6 Gb Muskin DDR3 CL 6 RAM
300Gb VelociRaptor dedicated hard drive
Win 7 Home Premium
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-08-2018 at 9:16pm
@ Woody....
 
My power supply, case and a very few other things will transfer over
 
Careful on the PSU, after Haswell there was a change to PSU design for the new Intel chipsets. I had to bite it and buy a new one in 2013 even though the power rating for my original was fine, it did not have the right digital design for CSTATE required by Intel Haswell and above.
 
@ chik
Unlike years back, the super CPU coolers today usually work with the memory slots although there can be design gotcha's. I still prefer Asus for boards. I cant give you a direct list. What I posted for Woody will work for you too but there is one gotcha I can forward...   what ever motherboard you pick, make SURE to use the memory QVL they provide and choose the memory from that list.
 
In the old days that list didn't mean squat...   today it does. Its a crapshoot if you buy memory not listed on the QVL for the board. They usually include a list of everything from the bottom of the barrel to NASA prices
 
Lowest timing, fastest speed....   everything else is easy, although I prefer M.2 PCIe SSD over all other drive options, and make sure it is mounted on a PCIe card and goes into a PCIe slot, not the BS tiny 'back slot' on the motherboard.. its not about performance..  performs the same either way, its about heat...  they cook unless they are on a nice metal heatsink
 
Some newer motherboards are actually supplying a mount plate AND a fan for the tiny M.2 slots...   idiots, they should have done that years ago LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 2:35pm
ASUS ROG Z370 Maximus X Apex seems to be THE board for memory overclocking. Only two memory slots though, leaving it with a maximum support of 32 GB but this maximizes the memory overclock capabilities.

A DIMM.2 slot (new to me) is located next to the memory slots, and allows for installation of up to two M.2 NVMe x4 SSDs connected via the chipset.
It appears to have a support to mount a cooling fan.


Hans

W7/64 Ultimate, FSX Gold, SB-E 3930K @ 4.7, Sabertooth X79, GTX580, 4x2GB G.Skill RipjawsZ @ 2133-9-11-10-28-1T, Corsair H110+Obsidian 900D,Seasonic P-1000, GEX, UTX, UT2, REX, S-Tech LC, NGX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdavenport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 5:46pm
Hopefully I’m not hijacking this thread but wanted to see what people thought about the following pc spec I was looking for my P3D 4 setup as I know the hardware config is a minefield:-

CPU: Intel - Core i7-8700K 3.7GHz 6-Core Processor
CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler
Motherboard: ASRock - Z370 Extreme4 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard
Memory: G.Skill - Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3200 Memory
Video Card: Asus - GeForce GTX 1080 Ti 11GB STRIX GAMING Video Card
Case: Phanteks - Enthoo Pro M Tempered Glass (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case
SSD drives will be taken from existing pc

Hope you can help.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:

ASUS ROG Z370 Maximus X Apex seems to be THE board for memory overclocking. Only two memory slots though, leaving it with a maximum support of 32 GB but this maximizes the memory overclock capabilities.

A DIMM.2 slot (new to me) is located next to the memory slots, and allows for installation of up to two M.2 NVMe x4 SSDs connected via the chipset.
It appears to have a support to mount a cooling fan.




And it also comes with 2 PS/2 ports and a USB 2.0 header, making a Win7 installation a breeze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 9:49pm


One click on a Samsung memory bios preset took my Ripjaws 3200 c14 to that. A 27/7 overclock that's as stable as any system default/xmp system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 9:51pm
Sorry, meant to send this....didn't see a edit button until ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 10:16pm
Hans

W7/64 Ultimate, FSX Gold, SB-E 3930K @ 4.7, Sabertooth X79, GTX580, 4x2GB G.Skill RipjawsZ @ 2133-9-11-10-28-1T, Corsair H110+Obsidian 900D,Seasonic P-1000, GEX, UTX, UT2, REX, S-Tech LC, NGX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 10:31pm
Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:



Oh I think this board deserves two thumbs up. :-)

Interesting note regarding 3dMark06:
In reference to a 3dMark06 comment made regarding his experience with the 6700K build.
My 1070 vs 1080Ti scores were darn near the same, within a 100 pts of each other (49K).
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-11-2018 at 11:23pm
Originally posted by funknnasty funknnasty wrote:

Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:



Oh I think this board deserves two thumbs up. :-)

Interesting note regarding 3dMark06:
In reference to a 3dMark06 comment made regarding his experience with the 6700K build.
My 1070 vs 1080Ti scores were darn near the same, within a 100 pts of each other (49K).
 
Awesome if we are talking FSX or FSSXSE
 
P3Dv3+ into 4?   Are we running 4K screens? are we running high AA levels?  are we using airports with dynamic lights? are we shoveled to the hilt with OBeX<
 
That #DM06 score works from FSX through P3Dv2,.....  past that, 3DM06 means nearly nothing if there is anything running in P3D past default
 
video card aside, the memory score is top notch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdavenport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 3:27am
Hi guys

Thanks for the replies. Although you lost me a bit. Are we saying it’s a good spec but more for FSX and P3D up to v2?

As I’m running 4 and I want to put the sliders up past default then what would you swap from my list above and replace it with?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 9:39am
Originally posted by mdavenport mdavenport wrote:

Hi guys

Thanks for the replies. Although you lost me a bit. Are we saying it’s a good spec but more for FSX and P3D up to v2?


No. I think he was responding to a totally off topic and incomplete statement I made regarding 3dMark 06.

Sorry man.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdavenport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 11:16am
Ok. I’ll hold then to see if someone can comment on the spec I posted and see if it needs tweaking and changing much before I go and order.

Thanks for getting back to me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 11:54am
I don't know much about ASROCK boards and can't really comment about it.
If your 3200 memory is CL14 or lower it's fine. Remember the lower CL the better.


Hans

W7/64 Ultimate, FSX Gold, SB-E 3930K @ 4.7, Sabertooth X79, GTX580, 4x2GB G.Skill RipjawsZ @ 2133-9-11-10-28-1T, Corsair H110+Obsidian 900D,Seasonic P-1000, GEX, UTX, UT2, REX, S-Tech LC, NGX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 2:12pm
What I was saying is, if you plan on using 4K and higher AA settings and also intend to run payware airports that use dynamic lighting, you will need the 1080Ti or higher card.
 
If not the 1070 is fine.
 
3DM06 can not be used to compare the 1070 and 1080ti for use in recent P3D. High res, high AA and features like dynamic lighting will not run as well on a 1070
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdavenport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 2:58pm
Sorry I’m a bit confused. I think my post inside this thread is confusing who we are talking about as my spec included a 1080ti. Apologies. I’ll start a new thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by mdavenport mdavenport wrote:

Sorry I’m a bit confused. I think my post inside this thread is confusing who we are talking about as my spec included a 1080ti. Apologies. I’ll start a new thread.
 
 
Your parts are fine. I thought that was made apparent with the post I made about what to look for:  http://www.simforums.com/Forums/new-computer-time_topic59632_post379459.html#379459
 
I just didn't want anyone thinking a 1070 will run P3D the same as a 1080ti under certain conditions
 
 
I would however make sure the memory model number is listed on the motherboard QVL sheet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdavenport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-12-2018 at 5:22pm
Thank NickN

I guess the only other question is whether a 9th gen CPU is worth holding out for...?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2018 at 1:53am
Originally posted by mdavenport mdavenport wrote:

Thank NickN

I guess the only other question is whether a 9th gen CPU is worth holding out for...?
 
 
 

THREE BASIC RULES TO FOLLOW WHEN BUYING NEW HARDWARE


There are some basic rules I suggest people follow before they push the BUY button on newly released hardware.


RULE #1:
Be aware that when we purchase 1st generation (zero-day) release motherboards or video adapters they can come with new-product issues. If you are not somewhat tech savvy this could present an issue for you.


RULE #2:
Do not purchase hardware with the thought that you will upgrade with better hardware in 6 months to a year.


RULE #3:
Do not daydream about what is coming a year from now. It usually gets delayed and between now and then sitting there wishing and waiting will only provide another year of frustrations.

 


ABOUT RULE #1:

New release hardware can have manufacture design flaws that get fixed in the 2nd manufacture run of the product OR some kind of compatibility issue between devices is present the manufacture needs time to correct. The Sandy Bridge motherboards that were recalled back in 2011are a prime example of manufacture design screw-ups and there are many more examples I can site. Being someone who has been around the high-tech industry for almost 50 years I can say without reservation that we are all are paying for research and development when we run out and buy that new product on day-one of release, and the hardware manufactures love us for it, but then we get to play with the goodies first too!


IMPORTANT: Buy a next generation video adapter and slide it into a older release motherboard, you could be asking for trouble and even if there are no issues with the product working in the system, I do not know how many times I have seen people assume that a new release video card is not much better than the old one it replaced simply because the motherboard was not designed for the new technology or has issues, or, the drivers are not ready for prime time and the user effectively spreads false rumors about the device out of complete ignorance.


Even if there are no design issues, most likely drivers for any new hardware are in their infancy. If you are not 'tech-savvy' give new hardware a good few months on the market and check up on it through reliable hardware review and support sites before hitting the BUY button. It is far better to buy a motherboard that was released at the same time or well after a new video adapter core design hits the market and make sure that new video card has gone through at least one or two driver releases (usually 2-3 months)


Sometimes a good source for information can be the direct support forum for the manufacture of the product. Keeping in mind customers are not experts and may not understand an issue may not be caused by the product but you can scout the manufacture support forums for common issues related to new release hardware and look for the 'gotcha' before purchasing.

 

ABOUT RULE #2:

If users buy with the thought that they can save money now and then upgrade in 6 months to a year, not only will they spend MORE than they ever would have if they had simply purchased the right components outright, but a user WILL sit there in a never ending state of frustration that grows and builds as they add more-and-more complex scenery and aircraft to their sim.


With technology available today if the right components are purchased from the start, one can expect to use and enjoy that system for at least 3 to 4 years. People should consider the right purchases an investment in their sanity and pleasure for that time period.


There are people who go out and buy the latest and greatest every development cycle. They pay through the nose for that hardware and can probably afford it, but the fact of the matter is the boost in performance they get from renewing every 6 months to a year is VERY SMALL for what they pay. You may read all types of reports about such hardware in forums.. be aware, people hate to say the money they spent produced limited results, on the flip side people who buy cheap hardware will typically defend that mindset by making ignorant claims about compares with the better hardware that are totally false.. human nature prevails.


Bottom Line: You are far better off planning, saving and purchasing the right parts at the right time and enjoying that purchase for the long haul.

 

ABOUT RULE #3:

And finally, there is always something new and improved in hardware coming down the road. When dealing with buying new generation hardware, do research the purchases and if all looks good set a goal for a purchase date based on new hardware release date and if design issues do not appear in a reasonable amount of time follow through with your purchase and don't daydream about what is coming in 4-6-12 months..   people wont get anywhere that way because they will be daydreaming about the release coming 4-6 months after the one they were dreaming about in the first round!

 

There are two ways you can approach hardware choices and win with FSX..   the first way is buy the hardware that works and will not be beat by anything else. The second is to build with a good budget and with good components and when I say 'good budget' I do not mean a $800 dollar computer system!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2018 at 10:04am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

What I was saying is, if you plan on using 4K and higher AA settings and also intend to run payware airports that use dynamic lighting, you will need the 1080Ti or higher card.
 
If not the 1070 is fine.
 
3DM06 can not be used to compare the 1070 and 1080ti for use in recent P3D. High res, high AA and features like dynamic lighting will not run as well on a 1070

Yes, recently upgraded from a 980 to a 1080Ti for just that reason.

3DMark06 (DX9) scores were almost identical but Firestrike (DX11) showed around 50% improvement.

In practice, even though I haven't upgraded my displays yet to take full advantage of what the 1080Ti offers I'm noticing quicker texture redraws, more smoothness frame to frame, generally a better experience all round. I am using some of what the card offers with DSR and AA to produce a nice crisp image where my old card struggled.

Typical GPU utilisation is 60% tops at the moment whereas my old card was redlining at 99% (and it showed).

An expensive (but not crazy expensive) and worthwhile upgrade for me which works well with my older hardware, as discussed elsewhere but thought I'd mention here as it something I have recent experience of.

Rob
i7 4790K @4.4 GHz, Asus Z97 Deluxe, 8GB 2400 DDR3, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, Samsung SSDs 850 Pro + WD HD, Windows 7 Pro 64.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mdavenport Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-13-2018 at 4:21pm
Would this cooler still be suitable for overclocking the 8700 to 4.3 to 4.5?

CPU Cooler: Noctua - NH-D15 82.5 CFM CPU Cooler
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2018 at 5:22pm
Well I have purchased everything accept CPU and Ram. I'm still studying Ram but I just read last night that intel will release the 9700K tomorrow and I wanted to hear if there is any reason why my pulse rate went up. I have been putting this new build off for a few months now and I'm usually rewarded for being patient. Naturally nobody has a had a chance to throw numbers out but from what I read, I get the sense that this chip might be the one that I want to take my PC for another 8 or 10 years.
Secondly, there has been so much discussion about delidding and so on. I sense that I will have to wait and see what people say after the release. I am quite comfortable lapping but delidding a $400.00 + CPU?,....mmm not sure I want to try that. I might practice on an old one first if I have to.
"Anxiously waiting to hear thoughts" 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2018 at 8:27pm
If you held out for a 9700 then your motherboard should be a z390 chipset. It will run on the CoffeeLake chipset boards but it should be paired with the z390 chipset.
 
As for memory, if you aren't into playing the clocking game then one of two options..
 
DDR4 3200 C14 14 14
 
DDR4 4000 C17 17 17
 
Other than that you must play the overclock game and that also means if you intend to run more than 16GB (2x8) you are far better off buying the memory designed to run the highest speed with the lowest timing @ 1.40v and a motherboard that will run those speeds too.
 
 
The 9700K is not hyperthread..  shrewd move since we have all come to know the K procs were the HT, but it IS a soldered CPU cap-to-die like Intel did years ago instead of the cheap thermal compound so no deliding games.
 
Only a single core is designed to run at the highest speed unless you manually override and clock it manually. I can't say how well it will do.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-18-2018 at 9:13pm

"If you held out for a 9700 then your motherboard should be a z390 chipset"
...It's not that I held out per se, but I wanted to have the means if the 9 was a long time coming.
As I said earlier, I have bought a few pieces already (Samsung Pro 512G with PCIe bracket ( I have a couple more ssd's I can still make use of), NH-D15, 3 more case fans from Noctua,

EVGA SuperNOVA 1000 G1+, 80 Plus Gold 1000W

so now I am down to looking at this....
and this
or
,.....it's all very difficult to keep up with the technology! and thanks for the guardrails.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2018 at 4:34am
I really cant help you directly. I don't own any of this stuff, I only know what I read, however, I don't read marketing so there is a bit of a difference.
 
You don't need a 1000watt PSU for single video card modern system, that's just nutz
 
A well designed 850 is just fine. Of course if there is another VC in the system, that's different.
 
 
z390 motherboard is the right direction...   what it does for you depends on if you correctly researched the features it provides and need/can use them, and, what ever else you can get from it for clocking because of a better design over a kiddie game board.
 
 
As for the memory...  3200 C14-14-14 that is the safest no-clock, will work memory speed and timing. It will NOT get you to 40ns, but it will provide the most stable situation. Be very aware that if you intend to run dynamic lighting airports and big payware scenery regions and you want exceptionally clear visuals out in the distance along with 4K and high AA...    you are going to need the 1080ti full on, with over 16GB of system memory.
 
Otherwise, it may be very easy to clock those up to 3600 C14-14-14 @ 1.4v and get the latency down considerably.
 
Past that, I would look at 4000 C17-17-17 or better @ 16x2..   speed and volume, costs
 
 
If you wont be doing cows, hookers, gas station attendants, wavy grass, shiny hangar knobs, chase me trucks with the drug dealer behind the barn stroking you for their next scenery product.... and not looking for 4K sharp and clear way out past max scenery radius...  you can be a bit more reasonable
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2018 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:


However...  if you plan on a P3D system, be sure is 16GB (2x8GB) at the least. FSX/FSXSE then 8 is enough (2x4)
 
GPU - no compromise  GTX 1070 at the least. if you like large screen resolution and a lot of weather running P3D v4x+, then 1080ti
 


This makes me wonder. My system which was purchased after advice given in this forum has 8 Gb RAM and a GTX970 4G videocard which I was told being sufficient. I use FSX SE and P3D V2.5. I have no issues with to little RAM that I'm aware of with these simulators. But I think I did have some with XPlane 10 when using add on scenery.

Do you mean that the hardware requirements a bigger for P3D V4 compared to P3D V2 ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-19-2018 at 4:02pm
uh huh
 
because P3Dv4 moved to 64bit and I am fairly sure XPlane has too. P3D has also moved to a FAR higher video card requirement and if goofy addons are involved you can push that all the way up to the biggest monster video card out there for typical consumer use. Same with pushing SGSS AA
 
 
The only advice you got from me on these forums in detail was back in 2013 other than the random individual post about running FSX/SE
 
Now, what I have said in the past is..   I don't need dynamic lighting, dynamic reflections, 100% water slider, goofy shadows everywhere other than clouds on a reasonable quality level, dynamic reflections, SGSSAA @ x2 or x4, airport vehicles, cars, people
 and any other nonsense.
 
..and what you will hear back in other forums about what I just said is: BUT THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED FOR UPGRADES so why would I turn those OFF???...   those are the folks on the monster systems and video cards, or, the ones crying performance, and/or both. Big smile
 
...and they STILL suffer in heavy weather with any kind of SGSAA running LOL Ermm Wacko
 
LOL!!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2018 at 3:29pm
i7-9700K VS i9-9900K

i7-9700K = $409.99
i9-9900K = $579.99

When I ask "is it worth it", I realize that the answers are "wallet" dependent. Also, being a bit illiterate PC-wise, I think I am comparing apples to oranges in a way.
Still I would like to know what you guys think
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2018 at 4:37pm
Forget the rest and read the CLOSING REMARKS section: https://www.techspot.com/review/1730-intel-core-i9-9900k-core-i7-9700k/page6.html
 
 
Bottom line is 9900k has HT the 9700k doesn't. 9900k allows 4.9/5GHz on 2 cores, 9700k 4.8/4.9 on one core and then descending speeds on the others (that is automated clocking, or turbo kick, not manual clocking)
 
No one really knows what these procs will do in a manual clock over time and as the link I posted above explains, more cores-more HT or both is going to require better cooling systems the 8700K does not.
 
They are soldered CPU to die caps and I can see why. Intel knew they wouldn't be selling that processor for 500+ bucks if it wasn't due to the heat and clock ability. A good read on power consumption which drives cooling requirements is here: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9900k-i7-9700k-i5-9600k-review/21
 
 
If the PSU is coming from a older system (pre Haswell) It should be replaced with a modern unit that is certified for the newer CPU's and motherboards.
 
 
If the goal is to buy something and use it for years, the situation here is this is ALL new. It's not tested in combat past the review sites and there wont be any reasonably checked and trustworthy guides around clocking and limitations for a while.
 
In terms of longevity, perhaps you should look at upgrading the video card to the RTX 2080ti instead of putting the money now in a 9000 series CPU, run a cheaper 8700K that will easily do 5GHz on a cheaper cooling solution, then over time watch what happens and see if the bump to a 9000 series would be worth it...   just a suggestion.
 
 
Just remember for FSX/FSXSE non of this new stuff is going to make a major jump in performance from a Haswell CPU running 4.7-4.8 and a GTX 980 or 1080 (standard). ASSUMING Prepar3D stays on a development path and continues to S L O W  L  Y Stern Smile LOLchange over time then these upgrades all have value as they would with the latest 4.3 64bit version.
 
As far as I am concerned, I don't see major performance improvements in P3D with 8 cores over 6, however, moving to a higher end video card such as the RTX 2080ti with the desire to run 4K with the works, running the 9000 series CPU becomes a matter of the CPU keeping up with the GPU and NOT so much a performance jump in P3D.
 
You have to look at what else you use your system for as well. I personally turn HT off when running sims and turn it back on when running professional A/V production and other engineering software that bangs on HT very effectively. (software is designed for full use of advanced Intel instructions and HT)
 
 
 
 
When you buy hardware this new you have to accept the fact that;
 
 It might be the next best thing to sliced bread -or-
 Not quite as hot as it is jacked up to be -or-
 Is good but in 3-6 months they discover a 'hardware' issue and re-issue MB's or video cards with changes.
 
That just comes with the territory of 'brand new' to the market and Rule #1 I posted years ago and noted in this thread above.
 
 
No one is going to be able to tell you what is BEST (performance vs. cost) right now, it was all just released and most humans that spend that kind of money are not going to say in a Flightsim forum they feel like they spent too much -or- what they bought wasn't worth it. LOL Its all bragging rights
 
 
If your goal is P3D and other games, especially with better resolutions and higher AA settings, I would consider putting the money into the flagship 2080ti Nvidia card and look at the budget after that understanding that cooling a 9000 series that is manually clocked is probably not going to be cheap. I am sure to cool them using the system automated setup is not going to be the same as the past, especially a 8x8HT.
 
 
 
 
There haven't been a lot of 9000 series real user benchmarks yet. But I don't think I would sink the money into a 9900K unless I definitely needed HT for my installed software and productivity.
 
What is out there now is thin and until enough users participate which buries the Intel -AND- AMD, Nvidia/ATI hired shills that post at places like this, its going to be difficult to know what you are seeing is authentic.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2018 at 5:34pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

uh huh
 
because P3Dv4 moved to 64bit and I am fairly sure XPlane has too. P3D has also moved to a FAR higher video card requirement and if goofy addons are involved you can push that all the way up to the biggest monster video card out there for typical consumer use. Same with pushing SGSS AA
 
 
The only advice you got from me on these forums in detail was back in 2013 other than the random individual post about running FSX/SE
 
Now, what I have said in the past is..   I don't need dynamic lighting, dynamic reflections, 100% water slider, goofy shadows everywhere other than clouds on a reasonable quality level, dynamic reflections, SGSSAA @ x2 or x4, airport vehicles, cars, people
 and any other nonsense.
 
..and what you will hear back in other forums about what I just said is: BUT THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED FOR UPGRADES so why would I turn those OFF???...   those are the folks on the monster systems and video cards, or, the ones crying performance, and/or both. Big smile
 
...and they STILL suffer in heavy weather with any kind of SGSAA running LOL Ermm Wacko
 
LOL!!
 
 


I posted a question in the LM P3D forum about hardware requirements and I was told that my system should be able to run P3D 4.3 but there would be a limit in how high I can set the settings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by jfri jfri wrote:

 
 
I posted a question in the LM P3D forum about hardware requirements and I was told that my system should be able to run P3D 4.3 but there would be a limit in how high I can set the settings.
 
Any system that can 'run' FSX/SE can 'run' P3D v4.  Key word,.. 'run'
 
Just like in FSX when in the past the 'minimum hardware requirements' were probably 1/2 or less of what the user 'should be' running for a reasonably enjoyable experience.
 
 
You might not like how it runs until you trim the fat and even then you must be aware there is no control from Nvidia Inspector other than 'enhancing' AA with SGSAA and in my opinion it shimmers 'worse' than FSX/SE does on MSAA settings.
 
We cant use COMBINED 8xS or 8xSQ and are locked to the application directly for Vsync and MSAA. The application does allow up to 8xSGSS AA in-game and NVi can 'enhance the application' for different combinations of MSAA and SGSS AA but not much else other than setting the power for the card to 'maximum performance' and the 'single' or 'multi' display performance modes, both of those can be set in the Nvidia Driver Control for P3D.
 
 
There is no running 1/2 refresh rate because it is a 'faux' full screen application (means it looks full screen but is really 'Window Mode') so the monitor itself should be designed or able to run 30Hz instead of 60Hz, that way you get the same advantage as running 1/2 refresh rate in NVI and locking FPS @ 30
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-20-2018 at 7:38pm
About HT CPU's...    In the past I always went HT but not just for my specific software use. That of course was important, however HT versions of the procs typically run larger cache's per core and usually tend to clock a bit easier and higher with HT OFF. Downside is they can run a bit warmer with HT off,.. and definitely do get hotter with HT enabled
 
There is a process called 'speed binning' (testing) which is what a silicone manufacture uses to define which slugs or chips go what direction based on the in-house testing. I would hope no one would think Intel would slide a wafer that tests lower to the HT and top dog slug bin. LOL They go the other way and end up being sorted based on the testing result all the way down to the bottom of the bin list.
 
 
So when someone says they didn't get the HT version because they don't need HT or it was cheaper, or that someone wasted their money that did,.... that is being a bit short sighted and ignorant of electronic components. The same process is used for memory chips and GPU wafers too.
 
 
 
...and lastly, the power consumption thread I linked...   that's not overclocked. You can probably expect 210 watts or higher on a upper end clock.
 
There simply isn't enough clean and unbiased data out there yet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-21-2018 at 11:39am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

 
 
There haven't been a lot of 9000 series real user benchmarks yet. But I don't think I would sink the money into a 9900K unless I definitely needed HT for my installed software and productivity.
 
 
 
 
What I said in that quote is in contrast to the post I made above about HT. There is a reason for that and not one I would typically suggest.
 
 
Normally I would always go for the HT slug on a new build but this round I cant say that 9900K chip is worth it over the 8700K. There is some information out there that points to the 8700K and 9900K are not far off each other in certain jobs and in more CPU bound games....   and we all know the king and queen of CPU bound render applications today. LOL  
 
 
 
 
 It's too bad Microsoft never designed a 'benchmark mode' for FSX and continued by LM for P3D. You cant create a 'automated flight' in Flightsim (any version) and call it a benchmark flight. Although some information can come from that, it will never produce a true linear scale of performance because there are too many variables automatically changing even with a 'automated flight'.
 
It would have to be designed so there was never any variation of the test run in order to establish a confirmed baseline and measure from it. It could offer base selections for MIN-MED-MAX-ULTRA like any other test along with AA selections if the individual test shimmers too much, but each level itself would be locked for clear performance evaluation.
 
 
That is why I used 3DMark06 for evaluating hardware for FSX/FSXSE. It is the closest benchmark technically for rendering similar to the original ESP engine. With the changes P3D have gone through, and continue to change, there is no benchmark out there to go apples-to-apples with. There is no way to define hardware changes against the application, other than 'just throw the kitchen sink at this next version and lets see what happens' LOL
 
 
 
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