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MS Flight Simulator 11

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Avidean View Drop Down
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    Posted: June-10-2019 at 7:42am
When I bult my previous system in 2013 it was for FSX and shortly after I completed it Prepar3D V2 was released. Now that I have built the system to replace that system for Prepar3D V4.5, this happens: ShockedLOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfri Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-10-2019 at 9:05am
What I think about this new title is this. When it is released there wont exist any computer that can run it and this will be true for many years. After all this has been the case every time MS releases a new FS title.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-10-2019 at 10:06am
I saw something in the video that gave me pause for thought. I think that this is a rework of FSX rather then a completely new engine. Check out the bottom left corner of the video just a fraction of a second after 1:09 and you will see road traffic on the highway and you will see the traffic on the underpass go right over and right through the traffic on the highway. You can only see it for a split second. This is one of the worst and most jarring immersion killers in FSX and P3D to this day. If it wasn't, I would never have spotted it but my eye was drawn to it like a magnet to steel! Yuck. If this was new they would have fixed that for sure!


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Apparently PC first and then Xbox.
  • Microsoft Flight Simulator (Xbox One And Windows 10 PC)
    The next generation of our longest-running franchise, Microsoft Flight Simulator is coming to Windows 10 with Xbox Game Pass in 2020, and coming to Xbox One at a later date. Microsoft Flight Simulator is specifically designed to celebrate flight simulation fans through a focus on the authenticity of flying and visually stunning environments. By revamping our tech, working in close collaboration with the community and pursuing the best partnerships across the industry, we intend to deliver the best-in-class flight simulation experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-10-2019 at 2:22pm
I heard it was going to be Xbox exclusive..   guess they changed their minds and decided to hit the entire market. 
 
 
They tried this before with MS Flight. If they don't deliver on the visual marketing hype this time around as well as dump the old render engine I don't see it going very far. If they intend to run the simulation with streaming cloud sat image data there is going to be a lot of bandwidth as well as drive space that will get filled, or filled and dumped on close.
 
Lets hope they don't pull a fast one and the for PC (Windows 10) part is not "streamed from your Xbox to your PC" LOL  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-10-2019 at 3:11pm
I wouldn't put it past them that although the goal is to eventually cover the world, only detailed Hawaii, Seattle, Chicago, New York, Cairo, London and Berlin will be available at first release. 
 
Depending on the response there might be more..  LOL
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Get a water-cooled CPU and GPU for your computer.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 12:42am
What's different now compared to when Dovetail was developing Flight Sim World and then decided to flush it down toilet?...I can understand more resources (MS), two platforms (XBOX and PC), but will it sell? Has the demand for another Flight Simulator really increased enough?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 8:09am
First off, I don't trust Microsoft. They seem to do what they want to and the customer be damned. Secondly, I'm happy with P3D. So I see no reason for me to investigate this any further. Pretty graphics don't make a great simulator. Great physics does. In my humble opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by cal2177 cal2177 wrote:

First off, I don't trust Microsoft. They seem to do what they want to and the customer be damned. Secondly, I'm happy with P3D. So I see no reason for me to investigate this any further. Pretty graphics don't make a great simulator. Great physics does. In my humble opinion.
 
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLTETaWswCY
 
 
John if you knew the real story of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer, that song would fit the Bill (the pun intended) 
 
...started at a motel in Arizona where a ticker-tape roll program for the Altair 8800 was conceived while dragging Steve out of strip clubs, and sobering him up for potential clients before he had to return to Stanford for his classes (Bill dropped out of Harvard, Steve dropped out of Stanford),... and trying to make a desert motel room look like a legitimate business, to include a neon sign. .. then Bill getting popped for crazy driving and acting like he owned the world to the police officers that arrested him... was fun too! (look up Bill Gates Mug Shot)
 
Paul Allen was the money man who cashed out at the right time, like Woz did with Apple.
 
 
Of course they all grew up.. but the premise of that song and MS has never changed   LOL Beer
 
 
..ask Steve Jobs about that if he was still around. Bill stole Windows from Steve's Mac OS because Steve was too arrogant and stupid to have it properly patented before handing it to Bill for needed coding changes. It ended up in Japan being installed on OEM systems as this new thing called 'Windows'
 
 
 
I will say this, Flight Simulator was one of Bill Gates personal favorites. The reason it lasted as long as it did and was developed as far as it was under his watch wasn't just money. I knew his father going back nearly 40 years and I knew both Bill and Melinda back in the day too. Bill had a passion and love for flying. Folks say being into Flight Simulator is a labor of love. That was true of the product..  until the bean counters got ahold of it when he left operations.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 3:16pm
Nick, I remember reading about Bill's "stealing" the forerunner of MS-DOS from the guy who wrote it. I don't remember the details and stealing might be the wrong word, but his antics put a bad taste for MS in my mouth ever since.

I remember when Apple released its point and click OS. We were all fascinated by it and instantly though about switching to the Mac because of it. It beat the stuffing out of typing stuff in at the command prompt. What kept us from doing so was the software we used was not available for the Mac.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 3:24pm
Those were the days
 
Back then the money was in the basic programming (Paul Allen recognized that) and especially software that Wall Street used to make investment predictions FASTER than humans could.
 
This was all before anyone knew who these guys were.
 
It wasn't Windows that made Bill Gates, it was his acquisition of the TCPIP code and hardware that made what was later called "Plug-and-Play"
 
All of a sudden you did not need a huge team of 100K a year PhD's in EE and CS with witchdoctors chanting spells to keep a major corporation network running. You could toss them and their retirement packages out the door and hire far lower income employees, which eventually became high school kids to do the same job.
 
 
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...started at a motel in Arizona
New Mexico, which is where Paul Allen came in..    my mind is slipping  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Those were the days
 
Back then the money was in the basic programming......
  

In 1983(?) I wrote a program to value Savings and Loan mortgage portfolios using BASIC. It was simple code calculating future value and present value, and took me a couple of hours to write. We used it when someone wanted to buy an S&L and they hired us to do the valuation. The next thing I know, E. F. Hutton called the he-bulls of the accounting firm I worked for and wanted buy the source code. The he-bulls sold it and I got a nice bonus that year. I have been flabbergasted ever since why anyone would pay big bucks for something as simple as that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 4:04pm
That's what I meant..    back then it was the bean counters that paid through the nose to have financial software at their use.. ie; Lotus 
Remember Black Monday?    That was the computers and the software running faster than any human could keep up and by the time they figured it out the massive damage was done.
 
We had something like that happen in the late 70's at NORAD..   that was far scarier than any wall street crash  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 4:14pm
That's what made me think of that. The bean counters wanted the software and nobody wanted to investigate how much it was really worth. That was their problem.Wink

Computers were a mystery to the average person back then. They were sold so could keep a household inventory on it, save recipes, and stuff like that. Little did anyone know back then just what they were actually going to be used for and how advanced they would become. I remember when I got enough money to upgrade my 300 baud modem for a 1200 baud. Like night and day. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 4:24pm
I remember the 1200 baud modem for my Apple IIc costing somewhere around 800 dollars, back then. In todays money, that was over 2000.00 today!! But the 1200 baud was like owning a Lamborghini in dialup speed
 
 
Back then when you logged in you were actually going through a SYSOPS.. if you could fool them into letting you through on a phoney login,... then you could have the run of the system until they caught up to you and tossed you out Big smile  it was a cat and mouse game!!
 
I remember messing with the SYSOPS as NASA a few times and nearly giving him a stroke.. fun days  LOLLOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-11-2019 at 5:48pm
Those WERE the good old days. I remember buying 512KB of memory and it cost me $500. The board was about the size of a surf board.Wink
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512K????   WOW!    you were running some pretty high level computer equipment for that period
 
Remember Bill said no one would ever need more than 64K  LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL 
 
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Not quite in the same league as you guys but I remember my first PC - Amstrad PC 1640 clone which I upgraded to a 30MB hard drive for an extra £300! If you come from the UK you'll know that Amstrad were legendary back in the late 80's LOL

I even added an 8087 numeric co-processor because I wanted to speed up complex number calcs, I had a thing for programming fractals and the Mandelbrot set in those days.

Funny thing about the drive is that it didn't like getting too hot or cold, something to do with drive head calibration shifting (no, it didn't correct itself very well). So a periodic low level reformat and reinstall from floppies. Ah, those were the days...

PS. I do have some kudos for owning an HP-41C programmable calculator in 1981, apparently all the engineers at Caltech had one grafted on Geek. How I loved RPN input Big smile

Love where this thread is going LOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2019 at 8:20am
Those were fun times. The first computer I learned to program (self taught) was an IBM System 3. 8K of RAM. That was huge! No monitor and no keyboard (attached). Just a 96-column card reader. To find out what was wrong with a program, you looked at the number displayed on a tiny screen and thumbed through the 5 bazillion page manual to see what it stood for. I don't remember Bill saying that, because I wasn't listening, but I do remember thinking 8K of RAM and a 5MB hard drive should be plenty of storage. Who needs more than that?

The place I worked at (I was part time during college) bought the System 3 to replace an IBM 402 calculating machine. It was so loud that it had to be put in an enclosed room by itself. Programming was done by removing the control panel and configuring the wires, which I never messed with. It looked like a birds nest with all the wiring.

I didn't have one of those HP calculators but I saw one. A million buttons on it. I used a Litton desk calculator at the place that had the System 3 computer. Only 4 functions and the digits were Nixie tubes. That was space age tech right there.LOL
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I'm still using an 8086 processor to this day. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2019 at 9:37am
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

I'm still using an 8086 processor to this day. LOL

My hero! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2019 at 11:53am
I remember wanting to buy an IBM computer based on the 8086 processor when I graduated from college as I was losing access to the university main frames. It would have cost me $10,000. I can't believe I was seriously thinking about spending that kind of cash back then. Instead I convinced the first company I worked for to buy one for the secretaries to use as a word processor. They loved it and I got to use it after hours. The plot thickens after my boss realized the engineering I could perform with it....

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well if you want to get OLD - my first computer was an IMSAI 8080 with 4K RAM - programmed manually in hex using 16 switches on front panel.

Let's see - how about a 5MB Shugart hard drive running off 120VAC weighing in at about 10lbs.

8" floppy drives holding about 197k data

$750 dealer cost for a Miniscribe 20MB HDD

ah, the good old days!

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The computer I bought when I opened my office was a PCjr. Remember that thing? It worked for what I did at the time.
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Originally posted by robmw robmw wrote:


PS. I do have some kudos for owning an HP-41C programmable calculator in 1981, apparently all the engineers at Caltech had one grafted on Geek. How I loved RPN input Big smile
 
 
 
 
I remember my first calculators too!!!!    
 
I was completely amazed when they came out with a pocket version. I remember thinking technology has come a long way...
 
 
 
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This thread has turned into a walk down the memory lane, which is in no means bad. That's what I like about this forum. My first experience with computers goes back a little more than 30 years when my best friend got a Spectrum 48K. I was amazed how fun it was for a 5-10 year old. By the time I had saved up enough the Commodore 64 was readily available so I got one of those (actually a Commodore 128D but was always used as a Commodore 64). With the 128D I started my carrer as a simulator pilot. Gunship was the 'simulator' of choice. From the 128D I moved on to an Amiga 500 with amazing performance and the option to fly the F-18 Hornet doing those amazing carrier landings over and over again like I had seen Maverick do with his F-14.
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The firm I worked for bought an Osborne portable computer so we could run that software I mentioned on site. It was as big as a suitcase and weighed a ton. But it worked.

I never used a slide rule. Too lazy to learn how. LOL
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We had no choice but to use the sliders.. it was either keep up with technology in school and work,.. or fall behind LOL
 
I do remember when the big desktop calculator appeared and everyone fighting for keyboard time and later the shocking cost of what they called 'pocket' electronic calculators.
 
It DID live in a pocket, just not your shirt or pants. You wore it on a belt loop and it hung down like a small purse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2019 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by vic_baron vic_baron wrote:

 
$750 dealer cost for a Miniscribe 20MB HDD
 
 
 
First SSD drives, actually not a SSD or small, but more on the order of volatile RAM storage, depending on storage space $30-50-100,000.00 USD. Battery required, could not drop power and came with a custom designed by IBM mechanical drive as a mirror to restore from. Those were used on the space shuttle.
 
 
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Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

We had no choice but to use the sliders.. it was either keep up with technology in school and work,.. or fall behind LOL
 
I do remember when the big desktop calculator appeared and everyone fighting for keyboard time and later the shocking cost of what they called 'pocket' electronic calculators.
 
It DID live in a pocket, just not your shirt or pants. You wore it on a belt loop and it hung down like a small purse

Yep, I still have the case and belt loop along with the calculator, all in mint condition. Couldn't part with it, I really look after my stuff. All in the original box along with the ring bound manuals, I really miss those sometimes.

And I learnt how to use a slide rule (and even a book of log tables I recall) just before they became unnecessary LOL

You know this is more fun than trawling through what MS might or might not be doing with their new offering (can't bring myself to call it anything else at the moment - it will be what it will be)
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Originally posted by robmw robmw wrote:

[QUOTE=NickN]
You know this is more fun than trawling through what MS might or might not be doing with their new offering (can't bring myself to call it anything else at the moment - it will be what it will be)
 
Yes I know, that's why I thought taking this somewhere else when Cal provided the opportunity might be better. We don't need a 20 page thread dedicated to rumors and arguments, or, the over optimistic "The next version of P3D will be a gamechanger and have a new render engine" complete and total nonsense.
 
We don't know what MS is going to do and although I still have contacts on campus I have no connection to the inner FS workings anymore and the folks I can get info from are not in the game division so what they know can be limited too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-12-2019 at 1:28pm
I can't remember what my first pocket calculator cost. It couldn't have been much because I was in college at the time in the early 70's, struggling on the GI Bill. I do remember it was Texas Instruments calculator with all the FV, PV, Log, stuff all on it. Looking at pictures on the internet, it looked a lot like the TI-59.
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I got my HP-41C in 1982 (I think). I remember I paid over £200 which was a lot of money for me back then as that was my first year in university. I even got some extra memory for it and some add-on software packages for stats and differential equations numerical solutions, they came on ROM cards which you plugged in.

I was too lazy to program them all in by hand LOL

I can also remember coding Fortran on pre-printed sheets which got converted to punch cards. It did mean some discipline in getting the code right as it could be a week before I'd know if it even ran. Ouch

Funny thing about all the progress since then is that anything that can be computed can in principle be done on any computer (Turing's Universal Computing Machine) so your out-of-date hardware is still good and you can have all those bells and whistles Big smile. The catch is you might have to wait a few weeks for the next frame to render and you'd need unlimited storage space LOL


i7 4790K @4.4 GHz, Asus Z97 Deluxe, 8GB 2400 DDR3, EVGA GTX 1080Ti, Samsung SSDs 850 Pro + WD HD, Windows 7 Pro 64.
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2019 at 4:56am
You guys are kids!!
 
Except Vic Baron ..  he's older than dirt, several years older than I am <sarc>  LOLLOLLOLLOL
 
 
I was sliding by (slide rule) in late 1960's  ..  I was a MIT brat and Raytheon was getting their arse kicked for 1202 errors while we smoked 2 packs of cigarettes, drank gosh knows how many cups of coffee and flipping through 12 inches of daisywheel style printout to find....
 
16/68 up.. 1202
 
IT CANT THINK, the memory is gone..  HIT THE RESET
 
Houston, you concur?
 
.. the communication delay was as stressful as a gamer playing for 1/2 a mill in bitcoin today
 
LOL    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2019 at 8:16am
You're probably not much older than me, Nick. I graduated high school in 1969, spent 4 years serving Uncle Sam, then started college in 1973. I chose the accounting route but wished I had chosen the engineer route. But listening to you old timers, I probably chose right after all. Patience isn't my best attribute. Wink

I had to take a semester of FORTRAN in college and it was a subject that was easy for me and I enjoyed it. Programming in RPG on that System 3 and later on the System 34 was a piece of cake, as was BASIC. I eventually learned Visual Basic and that's where it ended as there was enough software out there by then for what I did and it was inexpensive enough to buy. That was probably about the time programming was outsourced to India and so many American programmers got laid off.

Man have times changed!
John Patterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2019 at 2:28pm
Man have times changed!
 
 
...and not so much for the better in many ways. There are days when I would like to go back to the late 50's, early 60's and stay there. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-13-2019 at 2:35pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Man have times changed!
 
 
...and not so much for the better in many ways. There are days when I would like to go back to the late 50's, early 60's and stay there. LOL

I'm right there with you. I think about that all the time.
John Patterson
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