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Looks like I have to go W10 for Samsung Odyssey

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Avidean View Drop Down
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    Posted: February-16-2018 at 1:02pm
I have been considering getting a VR head set for sometime and putting it off for one reason or another. Mostly the complaints about resolution. But now that the Samsung Odyssey HMD is available and on sale my mind is made up. But I was sad to see that it needs WMR which means that I will have to upgrade to Windows 10 Cry

My initial thoughts is that I would go dual boot and keep windows 7 for everything non flight sim or gaming.

Any thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-16-2018 at 1:29pm
Just make sure its W10 Pro as it will be far easier to turn off nonsense and maintain better control.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2018 at 5:57am
Will you keep your current system or build a new one?

And I just saw the Odessey not being available in Europe. Hmm I wonder why Samsung is limiting the market for what seems like an upgrade from Oculus Rift or HTC Vive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2018 at 9:44am
I am keeping my current system. I considered building a i7 8700k system a couple of months ago when I had a memory module fail and some issues with my motherboard. The Motherboard was still under warranty and Asus much to my surprise had a brand new one of the same model lying around so I go that.  I also go an identical memory module from G-Skill as a warranty replacement. And I had found a matching pair of module to get me up to 16gb.

After the recent discussions here and Nicks comparison with a later system I figured I would stay put. I am still running at 48/45 and now have a GTX 980ti so I'll stay put until I my system degraded or a 6ghz CPU comes along.

Edit: and thanks for the W10 Pro tip Nick, I'll be following that advice for sure Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2018 at 12:41pm
What sim will you run? I am curious how it works with the current sims out there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2018 at 1:11pm
Prepar3D V4.2

Apparently there is now something called single pass VR mode which apparently nearly doubles the VR frame rate of the stereo mode. That along with the higher Res of the new Samsung Odyssey and the fact it does not need any external sensors for head tracking and its on sale make it a go for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2018 at 1:58pm
Is that some sort of alternative to Oculus Rift asynchronous timewarp/spacewarp? I believe it is a technique which lets the hardware play VR content at 45 FPS, or half the recommend frame rate, while Spacewarp and Timewarp in the Rift headset fills in the other 45 FPS for a 90 FPS experience.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-20-2018 at 5:07pm
Finally took the Plunge on the VR head Set. It's the Samsung Odyssey+

That's only 10 months mulling over it! Not bad eh?

Anyway now I have to get W10 Pro Cry

By the Way it is on sale right now for $299 in the US or $449 in Canada.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cal2177 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-20-2018 at 8:58pm
I got drug to W10 too by my productivity software. I got the Pro version like Nick said but mainly because it contains Bitlocker. So far, it hasn't been too bad. I think W10 has matured enough to iron out the wrinkles.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-21-2018 at 7:13am
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

By the Way it is on sale right now for $299 in the US or $449 in Canada.


Of course by that I mean the Odyssey+ is on sale not W10Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-21-2018 at 7:31am
Originally posted by cal2177 cal2177 wrote:

I think W10 has matured enough to iron out the wrinkles.


The trouble with Win 10 is that MS release what is effectively a new version (or you could call it a service pack) every 6 months or so. These can and do cause problems on first release for quite a few people. You also have to upgrade to the latest version at some point to continue to receive security updates which means a Windows version has a life of something like 2 1/2 years.

The good news is that Win 10 Pro currently allows you to defer a new version for up to 12 months and even the monthly updates for a month so is manageable. There are other things you can do to keep it reasonably stable but it is an active process, you have to keep an eye on things.

And yes, I am using it but not for my flight sim PC.

My feeling of using Win 10 is that I'm only partially in control of the OS no matter what I do, not like I got used to with 7 (and XP). I've just had to get used to that and think of it as an exercise in damage limitation. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-21-2018 at 7:42am
Is there a recommended W10pro performance optimization Guide loosely equivalent to Nick's Bible?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-21-2018 at 1:41pm
There is a lot more out there today than there was a few years back about the subject. Unfortunately most of the sites I have read mix in good advice with some bad and others are there to entice and point you to software like registry cleaners and automated optimizer software. I wouldn't touch those at all.
 
 
The basics for hardware are the same..  m.2 PCIe x4 SSD drives, high speed/low timing memory, enough memory and CPU speed
 
Its the same 'approach' as optimizing Windows 7 with some items the same and others different. If you use mechanical drives they need to be defragmented but if they are only used for backup storage and not the OS or application drive, they do not need in-depth defragmenting. High performance dedicated drives for the application alone should be PCIe x4 m2 drives with standard SATA SSD for the OS drive, of course you can use the M2's for everything if you have the coin.
 
Be careful the motherboard allows full performance of the ports, check sharing carefully to make sure you don't neuter your SSD pipeline.
 
Power profile set for high performance, get rid of sleep and hibernate, disable disk sleep or power-down, set CPU for 100% regardless of load. Get rid of the Windows BLING in the visual performance settings and setup basically the same as W7. Eliminate the indexing of each drive just like I showed with W7. Go through the startup list and disable from starting junk you don't need. Some good software you may want to use can install startup items you don't need to run at boot.
 
Check the service list for things like DIAGNOSTIC TRACKING or services programs may install that do not need to be running all the time.. Google is one of the worst offenders with that nonsense. But be careful with the service list. I would not use my direct W7 service list for that in W10.
 
 
Shutting Windows 10 up from checking WU and automatic downloads, and, WU installing drivers without permission, killing the automated OneDrive cloud service constantly running, uninstall all the MS extra apps (crap-ware) you don't need or use and making sure MS doesn't reinstall them automatically,  Get rid of 'live tiles' ... these are all high priority.
 
 
There is a list of privacy settings to opt out of as well as sending maintenance and error reports to MS. You can't shut all the 'blabbing' down regardless of what any software out there tells you but you can kill a chunk of it.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-21-2018 at 4:16pm
Thanks for the direction Nick. I'll give it a whirl and see how it goes. I am not building a new system. My Haswell system I still running great at 5 years old. I still get 48/45 on all cores and I still keep it outside in the winter which is now. Only thing I upgraded was adding 8gb more memory and replacing the GTX780 with a 980ti. I might get a used 1080ti when the price get down to about CAD$500. The upgraders are still looking for to much for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-21-2018 at 8:04pm
Windows 10 works like a dumbphone...  I call them 'dumbphones' because that is why we have Windows 10 today, all those years of dummies blindly clicking "I AGREE" so they can have their 'smartphone'.
 
 
All the apps you have installed on W10 that come from the MS "store" or other sources connected to MS are constantly chatting so if you don't need a app get them off the system, or, if you need one and you can get a version of it that isn't locked into MS and that you control updating, go that route and stay away from as many MS apps as possible, especially office.
 
 
and speaking of chatting...  don't enable Cortana at all. All you are doing is agreeing to turn on items you turned off and she constantly collects data and sends it back her pimp, including where you are based on your dumbhone if you allow that connection, or, other devices.
 
 
Everyone is in for a rude awakening come 2020 or so..  MS is going to start charging a service fee for Windows Updates. If you are on W7 thinking you can skip that and you use any modern version of MS Office or Outlook,...  you will be forced to pay for the same service which will increase in price each year.
 
 
 
 One last item.. unlike W7 where you can leave it on and running all the time, plan on rebooting W10 at least once a week if not more to gain back resources.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-22-2018 at 6:16am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Everyone is in for a rude awakening come 2020 or so..  MS is going to start charging a service fee for Windows Updates. If you are on W7 thinking you can skip that and you use any modern version of MS Office or Outlook,...  you will be forced to pay for the same service which will increase in price each year.


Just to be clear we are talking about newer versions of Office here (say later than 2010)? I've read that with Office 365 and so on already available only through subscription this pricing will roll through to all MS products. I've also heard that Win 7 will continue to be supported with paid updates for enterprise customers (at probably increasingly punitive rates) for a couple of years.

Just out of interest do you have a plan for Win 7 after Jan 2020? I still intend to carry on with it while I'm using the same hardware and software and don't need to upgrade. I've still a few more years to get the best out of what I already have which I'm still quite happy with.

Of course I will need Win 10 for web and general internet so a new laptop probably. I already use Win 10 in a VM on my current laptop and generally at work. The weak link would be any networking issues with Win 10 and Win 7 but it seems network shares and so on work ok.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-22-2018 at 10:52pm
Yes, newer office versions...
 
As for the paid updates, Right now there is nothing 'official'. What I have been getting is they are still mulling over the final direction but are leaning toward forcing the matter to all W7 users. We all have to wait and see what happens but given the lengths MS has gone to over the last several years in messing up W7 systems so folks drop it and downgrade, I would not put it past them at that point to conclude 'enough is enough, move off W7 or pay'
 
 
I will keep using W7 as long as I can. I do have a separate W10 boot install that was created using the free 'upgrade' method but was done in a way I keep both W7 and W10 instead of whacking W7 and replace it with 10.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-24-2018 at 6:45pm
Anyway, I just installed W10 on a separate drive and even though I have the windows 7 drive set a the boot drive I am getting and option to start windows 10 or Windows 7. I there any way to get ride of that so they system by default starts with windows 7 and windows 10 will only start if click on the drive under the boot tab in the bios?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2018 at 12:34pm
As long as it was not the 'upgrade' install and is a separate installation what you are talking about is the dual boot loader. You can't get rid of that easily but you can use Windows 10 or Windows 7 to set the 'boot order' so Windows 7 is the default boot OS.
 
START > in the box type: msconfig
 
When the config tool comes up click the BOOT tab.
 
You should see 2 OS's, W10 and W7, highlight W7 by clicking on it and just below, click SET AS DEFAULT
 
You can then set the number of seconds the boot loader waits in the TIMEOUT box. The default is 30. That means if you do not change the boot selection on the screen as the system boots within 30 seconds, it boots Windows 7 automatically.
 
I would not make that less that 7 seconds since you need time to make the change if you want to boot W10 instead of W7 and as I recall there is another option on that screen too so do not make the time too short.
 
The above can be done/set in Windows 10 too. Either OS will allow you to make that adjustment.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2018 at 7:00am
As always Nick. Thank you for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us mere mortals.Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-04-2018 at 7:43pm
In the future if you want 2 MS OS's on 2 different HDD's (the 'island' OS install) and you don't want the boot loader, and, to be sure neither OS creates a hidden partition on ANY other drive (if you don't know how to do that using DISKPART).
 
1. Remove every drive in the system other than 1 marking exactly which SATA cable went where. Alternately you could shut the SATA ports down to all other drives except 1.
 
2. Install OS 1. Update it and do all the happy horse hockey that comes with a new OS install.
 
when finished;
 
3. MARK that SATA line for that drive and unplug it. It MUST go back to the same SATA port later. Optional, shut that SATA port down in the BIOS and turn on the one to HDD2. Again, make sure there are NO other SATA ports enabled.
 
4. Install OS 2. Update it and do all the happy horse hockey that comes with a new OS install.
 
when finished;
 
5. If you physically removed drives, put them back in where they were originally. Or, turn on all SATA ports.
 
6. NOW you can go into the BIOS and set the physical drive BOOT order. Once that is done, at least with Asus motherboards, that OS/Drive will boot first unless you hit F-8 right at BIOS display then you will get a boot menu list and can select which physical drive.
 
 
Advantage..  Although rare but can happen, you don't have to deal with a dual boot loader that may get corrupted and need repair. You are actually booting to each physical drive independent of the other. Moving the drive to another SATA port will require OS boot repair but not as difficult as boot repair of dual boot setup if something outside the drive is screwed up with the dual setup. There is also no way the OS can take control of another HDD with a hidden partition, although there are way to avoid that without having to separate the OS's using DISKPART before the OS is installed.
 
 
Disadvantage..  PITA to deal with on the initial install. If you forget or miss a step you could end up having to start over from scratch to assure there is no connection between the 2 OS installs and never will be as well as no OS hidden junk on other drives in the system. No control over individual OS's where one boot can get you to repair tools for one or the other. The boot loader can be easier than anything else over time and you can adjust it yourself for default OS and timing.
 
 
 
The 'Island HDD' method is best if you absolutely want to be sure that neither OS has any influence over any other drives in the system when being installed and you do not understand how to use DISKPART to accomplish that. Some folks opt for the island method if they intend to have several MS OS's with OS's other than Microsuck as well.
 
 
 
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In a convoluted way I got what I wanted and that was to have the system by default boot to windows 7 with out being offered a choice of which OS to load. I dis install on 2 separate drives. The reason I wanted it this way is that my wife and I now share the same computer. The W10 install is for sims and gaming only which only occurs during me time. I.e. when the wife is at work and I am home alone.

Anyway I merely clones the Windows 7 install of my OS SSD to an old Seagate drive I had lying around and Installed W10 on my OS SSD. After that regardless of which drive was at the top of the boot priority I was given a choice of which OS to boot. And as per Nick's earlier post I reduce the time to 3 seconds. This turned out to be a bummer unless you where paying strict attention you end up in W7 when you want W10.

One learns the hard way. I figures I would just delete W10 from the W7 boot manager under Windows 7 msconfig. Then no mater what I did I couldn't get W10 to Boot.Disapprove

Well google in some ways is your friend (apart from the world controlling megalomaniacs who own it) and I figure out how to fix the boot manager.

On with the trial and error I then figured that I would have to use AIsuite in W7 for fan control since It wont install and is not supported by Asus in W10. (that wouldn't have worked anyway because its OS controlled so when I booted into W10 the fans would reset anyway). I had issues reinstalling AI SuiteIII into W7. I wanted to install into a drive that was no longer there and would not let me select another. I then figured that removing the AI Suite registry entry would fix that but I think I deleted the wrong Asus folder. Then when I rebooted I no longer had a key board or mouse in the W7 Unhappy

After trying several ways that google said that could be fixed to no avail. I did a system restore using the latest system image which thankfully I hade the presence of mind to make just before I started all of this.

Anyway that fixed the keyboard and mouse and since I made the system image before I did the W10 install, W10 was not an option under msconfig>Boot.

when the system is turned on it boots straight to W7 by default. If I want W10 I enter the bios and under boot just click on the W10 drive and it boots. I still get he option to select W7 or W10 but I changed it back to 30 seconds so as not to get caught day dreaming.

The bottom line: the wife turns computer on W7 loads end of story.

BTW, I have behind me my first VR flight experiences and I'll post more about it late. But I'll say this, there is no going back!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 2:28pm
Well... you were lucky. Typically something like that requires a dual boot repair which can be done mind you but it also depends on if the system has not been mucked with in other ways.
 
It also depends on how the original OS was installed. Lets say you did that original OS years ago and there is a hidden partition on anther disk somewhere, or, the original OS over the years has developed any kind of disk requirement because of OS recovery files and other hidden factors.
 
To properly do the "Island OS" setup, requires disable of every single drive in the system except the one you want the OS installed on. If you are not sure of the situation with the original older OS install, you may be looking at reinstalling if there is no image backup. That was one of the disadvantages in being a PITA to initially setup.
 
Unless you are absolutely sure that your original older OS is not depending on any other drive in the system, its better to simply do the standard dual boot loader. The 'Island OS' setup is far easier to deal with and do if you are starting clean with BOTH operating systems at the same time. Turning off all drives but the target assures there can not be any crosstalk or duck-ups as the OS's install.
 
 
 
 
As for AI Suite III..   I have it working in Windows 10 but as I recall I had to uninstall the original with Thermal Radar in Windows 10 and reinstall the updated version from the Asus website for the z87 Sabertooth motherboard. There were drivers listed for W10x64 for my board but the AI Suite and thermal radar update was listed with the W7x64 list
 
 
Version 1.01.01 2018/03/2776.79 MBytes

Thermal Radar 2
Fix compatibility issue with the latest Windows updates. Note that this patched build only includes the Thermal Radar 2 utility, it does not include other utilities in AI Suite 3.

- AI Suite 3 v3.00.13
- Thermal Radar 2 v1.01.01

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:


Note that this patched build only includes the Thermal Radar 2 utility, it does not include other utilities in AI Suite 3.

- AI Suite 3 v3.00.13
- Thermal Radar 2 v1.01.01

 
 


That i'll do! I only want Thermal Radar 2. not interested in any of the other stuff in AI suite.

I'll give it a go and see if it installs.

Edit, I didn't write down what I did but if I recall correctly. when I clones the W7 OS from the SSD to the Seagate HDD I had all of the other drives disconnected and I think when I installed W10 on the SSD I had all the other drives disconnected. But W7 is listed in W10 in msconfig>boot. Anyway, I am happy with the way it is now hopefully I won't run into any problems with it. Thanks again Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 3:24pm
Google vs NickN:

Does Thermal Radar 2 work in Windows 10 latest update?

Google:
After much searching came to the conclusion Asus does not support AI suite in Windows 10 Cry

NickN:
After I posted in this thread that I could not install AI Suite III (and by that I mean Thermal Radar 2) in Windows 10 because ASUS didn't support it, 1 hour and 20mins Nick's Post leads to this:


LONG LIVE THE KING!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-06-2018 at 3:40pm
 
 
 
 
 
 
As I recall you need the newer AI Suite and thermal radar in W7 too. The Windows update that screwed all that up was delivered to both OS's..   but if ain't broke,..  don't fix it.
 
I think the reason you may not have been able to find it using Google is because most of the tech issues around it are coming from folks on the newer boards. Us guys on the older boards don't have their headaches and can still run the 1080ti+ video cards in both W7 and W10.
 
I use the USB-3 Boost in the new AI Suite..  still works fine
 
EDIT .. I also have BIOS Flashback installed just in case its ever needed (never needed it) but it installed and works in the new AI suite too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-27-2018 at 3:37pm
It's been a while since I picked up the Samsung Odyssey+ and I thought you guys would like to hear back from me regarding my experience with it. Switching over to Windows 10 is a pain but I went down the dual boot road and essentially left windows 7 alone but for removing all things Flight Sim and gaming.

I am sure that I can do a lot more to optimize W10 for performance but for now UAC and windows defender are turned off. Haven't had the time to do a step by step review of the FSX bible and figure out how to apply it to W10 but for now I am reasonably OK with how its working. I don't mind the user interface but give me back W7 any day because its obvious to me that W10 has a mind of its own and I would prefer an obedient OS.

Anyway, I've installed P3D V4.4, X-Plane 11, AFS2, Dirt Rally and Project Cars. When I moved a couple of years ago I ditched all of my Flight sim controllers except the old MS Siderwinder Force Feedback 2. Over the years I've owned 3 logitech wheels. The Momo, the G25 and G27. looking back I always preferred the feel of the Momo over the supposedly superior later two. I did a little snooping around on a local buy and sell site where they where typically being sold use up to $100 and being in the right place at the right time I luckily snagged a mint condition, rarely used Momo in the original packaging for $40. Looked like I just picked it up at the store.

I'll start with the cons. The main one is still I would say, and is commonly alluded too, the resolution, the AA and the performance. I am glad I waited for the Samsung Odyssey+ for many reason, one of them being that apparently, or so the reviewers would have you believe, this is as good as it gets at this point in time. Spoiler! I am totally blown away by VR simming! But if the three above cons where any more off putting than they are, it might be a deal breaker. Also having said that I am on a GTX980ti so who's to say that a 1080ti isn't going to make a significant difference. My 4770K is at 48/45 on all cores and with 16gb of 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31 so I'm not sure if upgrading to the latest cat's arse hardware would represent what I would call a value for money improvement yet. And there may be ways to improve on those issue that I haven't earned yet.

The other annoyance is that interacting with menus in VR has a long way to go and I do have to do quite a bit of putting the headset on, taking the headset off to make menu selection on a display, putting the headset back on again. It's annoying and if you saw my setup you would see that for me it extra annoying.

The up side is that my eyesight is alas not what it used to be. The gauges in the cockpit look just like the gauges in my car when I take my glasses off. I can read them but they are a bit fuzzy. In my car once I put my glasses on the gauges in my car are crystal clear but in VR once I put my glasses on the gauges are still a bit fuzzy. In VR when I lean in with my glasses on the fuzzy text becomes crystal clear. And with my glasses off in VR when I lean in the text also becomes crystal clear.There is only a very slight qualitative difference in VR with glasses on versus glasses off for me. I've settled on glasses off.

Now the go stuff! The immersion is insane! Suspension of disbelief, not required! You are there!
Not only are you there you fly like you are there and get motion sickness like you where there. You are in a virtual space time. I actually have a hard time articulating the experience. The Aerosoft Glider Discus X has an avatar in the VC. Speaking as a real world glider pilot I can tell you that I might as well have been in and flying a real Discus. The main thing is that you are there are you fly the aircraft the way you would fly the real aircraft.

In VR i think the avatar is important and I anticipate seeing a lot more avatars pilots in Flight Simulators for the very reason that in VR the absence of an avatar is an immersion killer.

I am out of time so final word is that Dirt Rally is out of this world in VR. That's the best VR experience I have had so far but that is not to say they all haven't been awesome. They have!

Samsung Odyssey+ HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for P3D, X-Plane 11, AFS2, Project Cars and Dirt Rally.

For this simmer, there is no going back. Not a snowballs chance in hell!Big smile


i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fowler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-17-2019 at 4:13pm
NickN thanks for your detailed explanations as always. Would it be possible to spare the W10 install if you remove it's SSD (W10 SSD), get another SSD in, install W7 on it, then reinstall physically the SSD with W10 on it ? I have a new PC and would like to do this "OS Island" install. 

My new PC has W10 pro already installed, which I want to use for all except FSX. Now I will install W7 on a new drive (that was not in at the time of W10 install, so no contamination from W10 on that drive) so before installing this new drive with W7 I will disconnect the drive with W10, then after W7 is installed I will connect the W10 drive again. Doing so I would do what you suggest in your post about "O/S Island install" correct ? 

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-17-2019 at 4:32pm
What was it that Bud Abbot and Lou Costello said?
 
I don't know...   3rd base!
 
The island install requires that there is NO hidden boot partition or any hidden boot files on any drive.
 
You are asking me if you can take a drive out from a preinstalled OEM and make that work?
 
I don't know...   3rd base!
 
If there is absolutely no connection or way your system has any hidden partitions or boot files on any other drive?  You better be right because if you are wrong and you have no recovery media..   you'sa in deep doo-doo dis time.
 
If that is true then pull the W10 drive out but make very sure your W7 drive is NOT on the same port as the original W10.
 
If you do not know what I am talking about..   don't do it.
 
Your W10 drive must remain on the same SATA/PCIe/NVMe port as it was installed on. Your new W7 install must remain on the same SATA/PCIe/NVMe port it will be installed on.
 
 
Now..   there are ways to change that in command line repair in the boot if you duck that all up or you want to move things around, however if you don't know what I am talking about..  don't attempt it.
 
 
The island install is NOT FOR PREINSTALLED WINDOWS systems unless you know exactly what you are doing.. Its  primarily is for folks who bought DVD's of Windows 7x and Windows 8x and Windows 10x and have DVD's or have dedicated ISO's for DVD or USB burn.
 
Can it be done on a preinstalled W10 system..   perhaps, however if you don't know what I am talking about..  don't attempt it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fowler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2019 at 10:57am
Thanks for your time answering me. I have no issue taking the SSD drive with W10 preinstalled out of the PC, then reinstall two new/formatted SSD's, one for each W7/W10 O/S. W7 will be on a SATA SSD and W10 will be on a M2 NWme SSD.  I was under the impression that I could easily save the W10 re-install if I was just to disconnect the W10drive, install W7 on another drive, then reconnect the W10 drive. But yey maybe i don't know what I'm talking about (no pun intended) so will probably install all fresh from scratch. I did copy the requirement NOT TO CHANGE the drive connections/port at the time of reconnecting the drive after the other O/S install. Data not an issue because all data are kept to seperate drives already. (Been burned once, never again) 

I will start from here and see what happen.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2019 at 2:39pm

It may work but preinstalled Windows on computers can very tricky. They usually do not come with disks and instead you make a copy using the built in system they provide, or, in some cases they may give you a code that matches a downloadable ISO online.

 
I was being a bit flamboyant to make a point because I have tried it in the past thinking I had all the bases covered and ended up burned. So do make sure before attempting anything to follow the instruction provided for protection in disaster recovery.
 
If the system came with a software that creates a complete disaster recovery disk set I would use it first and also carefully go over any/all disaster recovery instruction in case it is needed.
 
 
Now, I have done the island install on systems that were preinstalled Windows 7 in the past and they worked with the exception of 1 and I was able to repair that setup but when I started toying with a Windows 10 preinstalled the process did not go so smooth. I have only done 1 Windows 10 pre but it turned out to be a real PAIN. Could have been the device itself too.
 
 
The primary difference was, when starting out with Win7 and adding Win10 was far easier than the other way around and for some reason I think MS made sure of that.
 
So do review the disaster recovery process before starting just in case. 
 
It is fairly easy to accomplish if you purchased Windows 7 and Windows 10 media and not dealing with any OEM or preinstalled.
 
 
EDIT: There was a system I came across where I discovered secure keys were preventing the LT from any other OS install but Windows 10. That one, I just walked away from. It was questionable that I could get drivers working on it even if it was possible to do a flip install so that is something you must watch out for too.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fowler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2019 at 6:55pm
Thanks for the head-up. It's just a shame it gets all too complicated (uncessarly?) I am receiving my components tomorow (SSD's) so will be ready to "toy". If I see that the W10 OEM install gives any problem, I'll wipe out the SSD  and install a "clean = non-OEM" version of W10 on another disk. No worries about beeing flamboyant ;-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2019 at 9:23am
Go for it..
 
Just make sure to disaster recover the original.
 
 
I hope it works out. I may place more out there than necessary but it is always in the best interests.
 
 
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