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I knew I would have to eat my words!

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Avidean View Drop Down
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    Posted: April-26-2019 at 5:38pm

Anyway I was snooping around on the internet and I found a ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC) LGA 1151 (300 Series) Intel Z370 for CAD$325 and an open box i7 8086K for CAD$500 at a local store. That's US$612. Now I am sorely tempted to take this opportunity to upgrade just keeping the rest of my system. I need 32GB of good DDR4 too which is probably going to cost me another $500+

As far as I can tell it all seems to be a pretty good deal. Any opinions welcomeLOL

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-26-2019 at 5:45pm
I'll be very interested in hearing how you like it.. (being on a 4770K myself..)
Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 1:38am
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

 I need 32GB of good DDR4 too which is probably going to cost me another $500+
 
 
If you want the fastest @ default speed timing, it will definitely be more than 500
 
 
Bad thing about is the availability and the rape-me time that happens when they do get scarce.  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232678&ignorebbr=1
 
 
but there is some hope...   4133 instead of 4266 @ C17-17-17  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232677
 
Now if you want an extra 133Mhz (4266) on C17-18-18, for 180 bucks more,...  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232678
 
If I were you and if you are back on the system building binge, I would commit, quit screwing around and get it while you still can.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 8:27am
Actually what I was about to order was the same memory that I order the last time I was going to build a year a half ago. I changed my mind and sold the memory but it still available on newegg.ca https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232376&cm_re=F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW-_-20-232-376-_-Product

Its on the QVL for the board so I think that I'll go ahead and order it.

Out of the ones you suggested only available on Newegg.ca are  

So thats 3200-14-14-14-34 at CAD$409 Vs 4133 CL17-17-17-37 at CAD$793

I'm not up to doing the calculation to see the difference but I doubt the 4133 anything like fast enought to make it worth the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 2:28pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPot7sipoPA&t=0m04s


DDR4-3200  0.313 ns  1600 MHz  0.625 ns C14  8.764  45.072  46.324  47.576  44.446  43.194  35.682  9.07  9.703  10.95  42.9436  9.6247  52.5683

DDR4-4133  0.242 ns  2066 MHz  0.484 ns C17  8.228  42.108  43.076  44.044  41.624  40.656  34.848  8.47  8.954  9.922  40.4624  8.8935  49.3559 


 
DDR4 4266 CL17   - This assumes 17-17-17   If we run 17-18-18 then the ns value is no longer valid and higher. If these sticks will run 17-17-17 they are the fastest.
1/((4133/2)/1000) x 17 = 7.97ns - Estimated @ C17-18-18: 8.516ns however the speed is 1066Mhz faster than 3200

DDR4 4133 CL17   - This assumes 17-17-17  I would take this over 3200 C14 any day but the motherboard better be able to deal with it too.
1/((4133/2)/1000) x 17 = 8.23ns  and the speed is 933Mhz faster than 3200

DDR4 3200 CL14   - This assumes 14-14-14
1/((3200/2)/1000) x 14 = 8.75ns

 
 
DDR 4200 @ C18-19-18 is nearly equal in timing to DDR3 3200 C14-14-14 but is 1000MHz faster... --- no contest---  


DDR4 is not DDR3. DDR4 speed actually plays more into the equation than DDR3. We can still use the same formulas but ticking 3 notches up on CL @ 1000-1066Mhz gain in DDR4, is kick ass faster than it would be in DDR3.

 

Do not let the small increments in 'ns' fool you. 3/4 of a nanosecond faster is a great boost.
 
 
One of my biggest peeves about retarded know it all's on the internet is: "It's nanoseconds for god sakes, you will NEVER see the difference"
 
 
My response: "You are absolutely correct, to a human nanoseconds mean nothing but to a CPU and memory system, it means everything you ignorant -loud mouth- know it all."
 
 
 
 
I'm reminded of a quote from a 1996 movie when computer hardware technology as we know it today was still in and starting to move out of the prehistoric age. The time period referred to was to make sure the typical movie goer would have a reference to instantly understand the impact..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xijhqU8r2A
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 3:02pm
LOLLOLLOLCryCryCryLOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 3:03pm
Reread after a refresh of the thread...   I added more to make the point
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 3:31pm
I think what I am going to do is go with 16gb instead of 32GB I haven't run into any OOM issues with either P3D or X-plane with my current 16gb system and although I have seen Xp11 use as much as 12gb of system memory I've not seen any issues. I think this is the way to go:

At CAD$403
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 8:00pm
Not sure that I care for the colour display.. but the memory looks good   
Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

I think what I am going to do is go with 16gb instead of 32GB I haven't run into any OOM issues with either P3D or X-plane with my current 16gb system and although I have seen Xp11 use as much as 12gb of system memory I've not seen any issues. I think this is the way to go:

At CAD$403
You could do that and see where you stand, but remember once its gone..  its gone other than eBay and whatnot.
 
 
I have heard that SOME of the 3200 C14-14-14 Samsung memory chips are known for doing 4133 and 4266 @ C17-17-17 or C17-18-18
 
That required a BIOS engineer to provide the profile users could apply, however, by now it is very possible GSkill is using the SPD of the modules to install that profile on XMP setup options and that is why the 4133/4266 stick run the way they do and could very well be the same chips the 3200 C14 sticks use.
 
In other words, they used the 3200 memory chips that clock like that to make the faster memory and used SPD programming to setup the BIOS to run them. So what you are paying for on the faster modules is to have the profile programming included for 1-2-3 GO operation.
 
 
Of course we are not talking about running those on a low to mid level board either.
 
 
I have also read some folks who got the golden chip modules some time back were able to get them up to speeds like 3800-4000 on C15/16 without any engineer profile setup
 
I can't advise you on that. If it was me and I was going to throw down on a system I wouldn't nickel and dime it because that system will probably be hot for many years just like the 2013 Haswell builds. The difference today is, it is FAR easier to clock some of these newer CPUs without the massive heat issues.
 
Don't do anything stupid like go buy a 12 core procs...  that's only for FlightSim internet pee-pee measuring. LOL
 
 
And DO NOT DELID a modern proc. Intel started soldering them again like they did in the past and that alone netted them a jump...  they were idiots for using thermal compound to begin with.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by Bert Pieke Bert Pieke wrote:

Not sure that I care for the colour display.. but the memory looks good   
 
I hate all that lighted junk they are selling to the kiddies now a days,.. usually there are options to turn it off . All I care about are the specs.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 9:59pm
I added that memory to my cart on Newegg.ca a few hours ago and having mulled over it for a few hours as I like to do I decided to pull the trigger but can you believe it after going back to checkout they where sold out! Bugger!

Anyway I found these:
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232758&ignorebbr=1

which are only a little more a slight bit faster but they are not on MB QVL list Confused
I'll have to ask ASUS before I buy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 10:19pm
Yea.. you are pushing enthusiast level speeds and with that can come instability without the top dog board and the knowledge to use it.
 
See what I mean about the stuff flying out the door? And as it does and the longer you wait the price goes UP!
 
I would not doubt it one bit someone else is reading these threads, saw what I said and what you posted and grabbed it like a hooker grabs cash off the nightstand.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-28-2019 at 10:23pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

1-2-3 GO operation.
 

That's about my pay grade. Although I did OC and OV my 2400MHZ CL9-11-11-31 to CL8 for a while a couple of years back when I had my system in a -10c ambient environment LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2019 at 5:04am
I am not posting this directly to any one person..  Like most of my posts when I answer its to also cover the lurkers too.
 
 
I have demonstrated over and over how memory speed and latency works. Over 10 years ago with DDR2. I backed it up with the engineering charts and data along with direct sim and 3DMark06 results at a Flightsim site that shall remain nameless. Tongue
 
 
6 years ago I backed it up again demonstrating the difference in the AIDA Memory test readout with a direct relation to Flightsim and 3Dmark06. The results were conclusive and indisputable but still I see the same BS being shoveled after 12 years of proving it wrong.
 
 
 
The easiest way for me to demonstrate the difference between DDR3 and DDR4 without starting a major test thread as I have repetitively done over the years is simple.
 
 
Back in the (later) day we had DDR3 1600 CL-6-7-6-18 (as I recall on the 18) This was the high performance stable clocking option memory back in the day, like DDR3 2400 was for Haswell.
 
DDR3 1600 CL6 -7 -6   - (This is for 6-6-6 memory but lets use a baseline and carry it forward)
1/((1600/2)/1000) x 6 = 7.5ns @ 1600MHz
 
I have discussed how many clicks up to accept for timing per DDR3<speed> so lets look at a real world established champion compare ...
 
DDR3 2400 CL9 -11-11 - (This is for 9-9-9 memory. I am keeping it apples to apples with 1600 6-6-6)
1/((2400/2)/1000) x 9 = 7.5ns @ 2400Mhz
 
 
So what changed in DDR3 between the two with the real world timing values?
 
1600              CL6         -  7             - 6    true timing
2400              CL9         - 11            - 11   true timing
+700Mhz     +3 ticks    +4 ticks       +5 ticks
 
Ok so we increase the speed by 700Mhz and maintained the same latency but we also had to sacrifice some timing to do it with stability (+3 +4 +5). It worked for what it was at the time! 
 
 
Now, lets look at DDR4
 
DDR4 3200 CL14 -14-14
1/((3200/2)/1000) x 14 = 8.75ns
 
Lets round the next off to 4200 because there is DDR4 C17 4266 and 4133
 
DDR4 4200 CL17- 17-17 
1/((4200/2)/1000) x 17 = 8.10ns  (actually 8.095 but I rounded up by .01ns)
 
Same deal as DDR3:
 
 
3200               CL14        -  14            - 14    true timing
4200               CL17         - 17            - 17   true timing
+1000Mhz     +3 ticks      +3 ticks       +3 ticks
 
Ok so we increase the speed by 1000Mhz and also DROPPED the latency.
 
DDR4 4133 C17 is 8.23ns, AGAIN lower latency over 3200 even with a 67Mhz drop
 
 
 
DDR3 results: +700Mhz      +3 ticks   +4 ticks     +5 ticks
DDR4 results: +1000Hmz   +3 ticks    +3icks       +3icks
 
So with DDR3 we took a 3 tick+ (equally higher to DDR4) in CL but also +1 and +2 ticks higher in the sub timings and ran 300MHz less than DDR4
 
 
 
 
 
If anyone here can't see the difference between the positive change between DDR3 and DDR4 if they actually buy the right modules,..  I give up. LOL
 
 
 
 
 
If I read this one more time or someone is daft enough to come into this forum and try it on me....     "It's nanoseconds for god sakes, you will NEVER see the difference"
 
My response will be in this order:
 
 
 
 
 
 
... and lock the thread     Beer
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2019 at 8:20am
Bugger, the 32GB 4x8 modules are also sold out so even if I wanted to spend the MoneyDisapprove
Anyway I found these:
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16820232773
I guess a bit slower

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2019 at 4:06pm
well this is what I ended up buying:

its 4400 CL18-19-19-39

I might have to down clock it a bit but well see. I would have preferred to get the 4416 CL17. I can't believe how fast that stuff just disappeared right in front of my eye's. Anyway didn't want to take the chance that 4400 CL18-19-19-39 would suffer the same fate and interestingly id dropped $14 in price since yesterday. And besides it was literally the only left in the ballpark.

So I have the i7 8086K and the DDR4 order from Newegg.ca and I'm picking up the Maximus X hero tonight

Nick, your comment above about delidding above. I don't think Intel used solder on the 8086K. everything I've seen says its TIM. I think they started using solder on the 9 series.

Anyway I am going to make 3 benchmarks with the old system before I take it apart. I do a circuit of KSEA on Vanilla P3D 4.4 or 4.5 if the hot fix comes soon. I'll max out all the setting. and I'll use the built in recorder to the flight. I'll use shadowplay with the FPS counter to record the playback. Then once the new system is built and I am finished overclocking it. I do the same with the same setting and the same recording and put them side by side. Like this:

I'll do the same with XP11 and Project cars
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2019 at 4:46pm
4400 CL18-18-18= 8.18ns
 
With the 18-19-19 timing its probably around 8.5 as in these cases I use the CL + .5 for the formula which gets it close. 3200 C14 is 8.75 but if it runs you would be 1200MHz faster than 3200.
 
The motherboard quality and design will be the deciding factor to both running it at default and clocking the CPU with full memory speed. VCCSA Voltage may need to be boosted but be careful.
 
You can't use my Haswell clocking guide as there is no technical information in that thread with respect to voltages that apply to the newer system.
 
If you can down clock it to 4133 or 4266 CL17-17-17 or CL17-18-18 stable that is not a bade tradeoff for the price.
 
 
You can do these benchmarks but keep in mind, using a old Flightsim install to make test runs may not display true results..  in cases like this I prefer to get any maintenance needed to be done on the system finished perhaps including updating drivers and then do a clean reinstall of the sim, deleting and flushing all original directories after uninstall of the original sim.
 
I wouldn't use any video recorder to establish any test. We don't fly with video recorders running and they are all know to create erratic test results when they are.
 
 
I wouldn't delid until after running/clocking the system without it to see if it is even needed.
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The Drama continues. I went to pickup my open box Maximus X hero and checking it out discovered bent pins. So I have to look for another board. Cry

Oh Well, I found a used Maximus X Apex but its a good hour drive to pick that up but at least my memory will work on it.

EDIT:

Now I have a choice between and used Maximus X APEX six purchased 6 months ago with about 30 months warranty left. Seller says its pristine and wants CAD$300 but I have to drive 1.5 hours there and back to get it. The up side is that my DDR4 should go full speed on that board and it only has 2 dimm slots.

The other option I have is a new and sealed Maximus X Hero for CAD $350.

I think it has to be the APEX considering the memory I just boughtLOL

Holy Cow the memory I bought earlier today is now out of stockLOL
Well mine has shipped already so its all goodLOL
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232758&ignorebbr=1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-29-2019 at 9:37pm
Used Apex or sealed Hero?

My Raj backed timings on an Apex X:



Westman's 9900k on the Apex X (I think these are his binned 4600 c18):



If you choose the 8086 think twice before updating the bios past 1401 on the Apex or Hero ...you'll loose what I think is significant memory performance.

Westman's Aida score is incredible for a 9900k ....hard pressed to find anything even remotely close with a Z390 board.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 1:47am
Nice add Funky. If you dump that system anytime soon you would be certifiably nuts . Beer
 
Did you delid that 8086? If not I would bet you could roll another 2-300Mhz if its done right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 1:56am
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

 

Holy Cow the memory I bought earlier today is now out of stockLOL
Well mine has shipped already so its all goodLOL
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820232758&ignorebbr=1
 
You waited till the end of the run to do this so you are going have to take what you can get and cross your fingers.
 
Reminds me of this passage in The Bible:
 
THREE BASIC RULES TO FOLLOW WHEN BUYING NEW HARDWARE
 
 
Chapter 1, Verse 1

RULE #1:
Be aware that when we purchase 1st generation (zero-day) release motherboards or video adapters they can come with new-product issues. If you are not somewhat tech savvy this could present an issue for you.

RULE #2:
Do not purchase hardware with the thought that you will upgrade with better hardware in 6 months to a year.

RULE #3:
Do not daydream about what is coming a year from now. It usually gets delayed and between now and then sitting there wishing and waiting will only provide another year of frustrations.
 
 
 
LOLLOLLOLLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 9:54am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Nice add Funky. If you dump that system anytime soon you would be certifiably nuts . Beer
 
Did you delid that 8086? If not I would bet you could roll another 2-300Mhz if its done right.


I delidded it.

And you're right on point about the extra 2-300Mhz if done right, if in the hands of someone like Westman. The overclock with the hardware I have came easy ...but there is more to be had. Heck I'm using a H100 V2 cooler. lol


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 11:34am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:


You can't use my Haswell clocking guide as there is no technical information in that thread with respect to voltages that apply to the newer system.
 


Does this comment refer to OCing and OVing the DDR4 or to the whole build in general?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 1:38pm
None of the BIOS settings I outline can be applied based on a cookie cutter setup, meaning, there may items that are relevant and are part of how any OC setup is done such as testing for defects, heat and stability,... all of that is the same.
 
There may be some BIOS settings that are the same too but you can't go down the list and just simply apply the settings and voltages I outlined. The specific list of settings for each clock speed and their limits are for the Haswell era procs/boards.
 
So, if you take the overall outline and apply the same logic to building and setting up, that works but you can not under any circumstances just parrot my settings with these new systems.
 
 
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OK, It will be a slow process with a steep learning curve. I am semi-retarded or I mean retiredLOL so I'll have the time and the inclination. Haven't had a good challenge in while.Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-30-2019 at 2:50pm
Well the good news is.. these newer procs are far easier to clock and maintain a safety net than those of the past. The same stress and stability testing is required to define the limits.
If you don't do anything silly like buy into 12 core processors and run hyperthread for Flightsim (any version) and also go for the model marketing numbers/hype you probably wont have any problem getting many procs, such as the 8700/8089 to 5Ghz.
 
First order of business is to locate a reputable tech site that can define the max voltage values that 'could' be applied such as Vcore, VCCSA, CPU Input V, CPU A/D, CPU Cache, etc, etc
 
Once you know where the limits are and can test for heat and stability as you go and know the danger limits such as what I posted here for Haswell:
 
 
WARNINGS EVERYONE SHOULD READ AND UNDERSTAND
ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM SPECIFICATIONS
 
Just parroting a list from some guy in a forum can be dangerous unless that person has a long time reputation and background in that engineering field, such as Raja from Asus, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-19-2019 at 10:16pm
Anyway, Got my parts all together a couple of weeks ago but just got around to putting the system together yesterday. Always a relief when the system fires up for first time with used parts.

I ended up picking up a Maximus X Apex fro CAD$350. Got all the packaging and accessories and its all like new. The guy I bough it from really new far more about OC than me and there is a saved profile on board for 5.2ghz at 1.4v he used for his 8700K. So a good starting point. I picked up an open box 8086K for CAD$480 and the DDR4 for About CAD$450

I did however Run into a problem. My ThermalRight Silver arrow with 2 fans blocks one of the Memory sockets and the 1st PCIe port which if I am not mistaken is the fastest one.

OH well. I figured I would use a dremel to cut off the required amount of the offending fins just enough to fix the memory in slot. But I cannot do that for PCIe port. Does any one know if it wil l make a difference with with this board if I use the second slot instead of first for the GPU?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 3:06am
Download and look at the manual?
 
Only way you will know if the slot will run x16 with nothing in slot 1 is the manual.
 
Or just put it in slot 2 and use GPUz to check the PCIe x value under its bench test load..  if it reads x16 then its running x16
 
Or course the BIOS settings might define what can be run in that slot too...  
 
RTF'nM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 8:10am
What? The whole manual! and not just look at the pictures? Cry
Sorry to hear about your MB cracking, you should have used a torque wrench to tighten
the screw so as not to apply to big a bending moment to the board. I thought you would have known better! Me=LOL, Nick=Angry Me=Ouch Nick=LOL Me=Cry Everyone else=Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 4:27pm
That was put on 6 years ago and has never been removed after doing all the write-ups on how to do it and clock, however during that period it was on and off many times so I am sure that played a role.
 
Typically one installs something like that and it stays there, or might come off a few times over some years, but it is not normal to hang a monster air cooler and then turn around and R&R over and over again in a matter of weeks/months.
 
 
as for your lazy arse...  The manual is written in a way it would confuse me too. I don't speak Engrish and of course they love to hide crap like this and let you discover it.
 
If I go by the slot names and outlines I would say no, x16 is slot 1.. however !!
 
In the beginning of the manual it clearly says:  2x PCIE 3.0 x16 Safeslots (supports x16, x8/x8)
 
Now that reads to me that both slot 1 and 2 are x16 with a single device in either one as long as there is no other device sharing with the 2nd slot.
 
Am I right?  Pull the video card and move to the 2nd slot making sure nothing else is sharing with it. You might have to reinstall drivers, I don't know for sure.
 
 Fire up GPUz and look at the BUS INTERFACE box with the question mark next to it.. 
 
What does it say? Probably not x16 when the card is not under a load
 
Now click the question mark and when the test appears run it (not full screen).
 
Did the BUS INTERFACE jump to x16?
 
If so it works as long as you don't plug anything in that shares with PCIe x16 slot 2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-20-2019 at 8:29pm
Arse? I knew you where Irish! LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 7:56am
Progress so far is good. I ended up modifying My ThermalRight Silver Arrow so that I could get the GPU in PCI-e slot one. I had to figure out a different way to mount the fans too, since they had to be shifted a few mm of center rendering the mounting clips unusable. Anyway it all worked out very nicely. Amazing what you can do with a Dremel.Smile

Also I am content that I will get 5.3ghz, so I'll say cautiously mission accomplished. Let's hope it translates into significant flight sim performance improvements. The previous owner of the Maximus X Apex had a 5.2ghz profile saved on it for his 8700k. I just changed that one setting to 5.3 and booted. I have not tested it for stability but I did put it under load using the Passmark CPU test. Yes I know that's not the way. It was just a quick look-see. Anyway the CPU hit 80c so I am not happy at all with the cooling. I lapped the heatsink due to the condition of the nickel plating which was stained and it would not come of with heavy scrubbing with an abrasive cleaning pad. My gut feeling here is getting load temperatures down is the next hurdle. I am going to go ahead and delid. I will also lap the neat spreader. I did see awhile back that some small German company had developed a system for mounting the heat sink directly on the CPU die but I think I'll pass on that for now.

The other issue is that the system will not post when the XMP profile is loaded. I get a Q-code "AC" which according to the manual means "System has transitioned into ACPI mode. Interrupt controller is in PIC mode". Anyway I'll worry about that latter after I get the cooling sorted out.

Have to say I love this MB.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 11:03am
Be VERY careful lapping when delidding a CPU. Lapping itself can be dangerous because you can take too much off the HSF.
 
If you go too far it will no longer make proper contact due to the change in elevation and when delidding you are taking off more.
 
The heatsink (from the factory) has a shape to it that <supposedly> matches the shape of the CPU cap from the factory. A example of that shape is here: http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1060-page4.html
 
CPU's have a slight shape from the factory, the two mate together.
 
But there is also the critical physical distance that the heatsink and CPU allow so contact is made..  go to far and that distance decreases and the studs that hold the plate for the HSF mount must come down slightly.
 
 
Before you go grinding anymore perhaps you may want to consider gettig rid of the huge metal hulk and throw down for something like this: https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16835181139
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 2:23pm
OK, thanks for the tips and advice Nick. I spent most of today deliding and lapping CPU heat spreader up to 2000 grit and gave the ThermalRight another lick to clean it. I held the heatsink with the shinny side down and pressed the CPU heat spreader against it then let it go and it stuck momentarily so I figure that should do it. Anyway I put everything back together using Coolaboratory liquid pro and just for quick test ran Passmark CPU test and saw a maximum temp of 57c vs 80c previously and at that temp it crashed, whereas the test completed when I got the 57c. So I am happy with the cooling now. On to the next steps .Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 4:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 4:30pm
Just got my DDR4 running at 4400mhz too! Whahooo!LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 5:48pm
Nick you where not kidding when you said that overclocking the new CPU's was far easier than the i7 4770K. I simply loaded optimized defaults, then set the XMP and then changes the CPU core voltage to 1.4 and then the frequency of each core to 53 and turned off hyper threading, booted her up and voila CPU-z says 5300mhz and 4400mhz.

So to give the interested parties wondering if this upgrade would be worth it an answer. I did have the presence of mind to run an XP11 benchmark and a P3D V4.5 benchmark for a comparison and I'll post the results when I make the full comparison.

But for now I just ran the benchmark for XP11 and where I saw low 20s flying low between the Seattle sky scrappers with the i7 4770K at 4.8ghz, I saw low 30s with the i7 8086K at 5.3ghz

I think it is reasonable to say at this point that I am not disappointed LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 7:48pm
Before you go all cowboy thare slick..   you best run OCCT:CPU and Linpack tests for stability and heat!
 
You may not like what you find
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May-25-2019 at 7:58pm
I'll do that Boss! Wink
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