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Excluding roads using Sbuilder

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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Excluding roads using Sbuilder
    Posted: June-03-2008 at 5:19pm

I've been using Sbuilder to correct terrain problems with FS9. Sbuilder allows you to create exclude polygons that remove certain terrain features, like roads, airport polygons, and riverbanks. You do this by specifying the layer you want to exclude. For example the default terrain riverbanks are in layer 8, and default terrain roads are in layer 6. So far I've been unable to remove UT roads. Is UT drawing the roads someplace other than layer 6? If so, what layer is it using? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Sidney Schwartz
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daveEM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote daveEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2008 at 9:01pm
I think UT roads are in the right place.  Why would you want to remove them?  Build your scenery around them just like for real.


Rreal traffic shot, yes red roads in the morning.
Edmonton 06:47 hrs. 10/19/07
dave
Canada
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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2008 at 11:14pm
First of all, nobody's data is 100% perfect, and there are some obvious errors in UT. That doesn't make it a bad product....I like it just fine. Secondly, there are times when it's just easier to move or remove a road than have to relocate an entire airport.
Sidney Schwartz
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meshman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meshman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-03-2008 at 11:21pm

Hey Sid,

Good to see you pop in! I'm going way back into the memory banks to recall the FS9 stuff, so I'll use the gray hair as the reason if I'm wrong. The magical number IIRC is layer 13, but Allen will have to confirm or correct. Until then, if you want to check and see if I'm right or wrong, try 13.

All the best from La-la land!

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HolgerS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolgerS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2008 at 2:26am

Hi Sidney,

you can find out for yourself. Load the UT road file in question into LWMViewer, export to source, open the bgs file in Wordpad and search for the "VTPLayer" entries in the file. The first number after that word is the layer used.

Cheers, Holger

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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2008 at 2:23pm
Thanks Lance and Holger for the suggestions. I will keep slogging ahead and see if I can get this figured out. Thumbs%20Up
Sidney Schwartz
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akriesman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akriesman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2008 at 5:25pm

"First of all, nobody's data is 100% perfect"

Very true.   I think that most of the roads in both the Navteq and TeleAtlas data sets were digitized by driving the roads with trucks, which are tracked by satellites.    These are extremely accurate.   But, I know that some remote or new areas, can use data provided by local city governments, which are generally less accurate.

As far as the UT FS9 layering, I also had to do some research to dig this up (it has been a while).    

  • The road encasements are layer 6.
  • Non-highways are layer 7.
  • Highways are layer 8.

At least, this is what my source code is telling me.   I don't keep the large ASM files from FS9 anymore.

 

Allen

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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2008 at 5:55pm

Thanks, Allen. The UT roads I wanted to remove are indeed in layer 7.

Holger, I hope you'll pardon my ignorance, but I was unable to figure out which of the UT files covers the area I'm working with (Hughes HUS in Alaska). The default scenery roads file is RD906080 in folder scenery/Namw. (I can find the default scenery files by opening the afcad for the airport in AFX...it displays the file name.) This file has been disabled, I'm assuming by UT during the installation process. I see no other RD906080 in the namw folder, and no RD files at all in the UTCANADA folder. So how do I find the corresponding UT file?

Thanks again, all! Big%20smile

Sidney Schwartz
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quantumleap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quantumleap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2008 at 7:51pm
While you didn't see any RD files, I'd hope you saw things like RA, RB, RM, RR and RT files containing similar file numbers that you are looking for (of course based on if that feature is present or not for the area). These match the following various options in the UT Setup and Configuration Tool choices

Enhance Roads (except for residential) = RM
Add Residential Roads = RA
Add Bridge Roads = RB
Add Tunnel Roads = RT

Enhanced Railroads = RR

Note in some cases you'll have additional parts of filenames in the format '-nnnn' after the major number. These indicate with more detail where in the larger cell the various features are.

A very good tool to work out which files would be loaded for a particular area is Jim Keir's LWMViewer.

Jeff


Check out my aviation photography and digital art at Photisify
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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-04-2008 at 9:31pm

Jeff, I tried your suggestion and it worked like a charm. Thanks!

I've learned some very useful tricks from this conversation. Clap 

Sidney Schwartz
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David Wooddell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David Wooddell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2008 at 3:41pm

Kudos to Sid for his efforts to correct some of the little errors in UT Alaska/Canada.

He created Neil Lake, (left completely out of FS9 & FSX) north of Anchorage, replaced Puntilla Lake at Rainy Pass (removed by UT), and remade Summit Lake in Moose Pass. All are popular floatplane destinations.

I only had to make an AFCAD and place a few cabins along the shore.

All I can say is that when UTX Alaska is ready months from now, I know it will be the crown jewel of the Ultimate Terrain family.

Thanks Sid, and the UT Crew.

David

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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2008 at 6:34pm

Glad you're enjoying your new lakes, David. Smile

I've got another related question. I can decompile, edit, and recompile the default AP bgls, but not the FL or AB bgls. First of all, I'm guessing (based on what I could see in LMviewer) that these contain Flattens and Airport Bases, respectively. Is that correct? The bases I can exclude using Sbuilder, so I'm not too concerned about those. However, I need to get rid of a default flatten. Is there a way to decompile and edit the FL bgls? I've tried Bgl2Xml, Bglanalyze (old and new), and bglxml. None of those worked.

Sidney Schwartz
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meshman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote meshman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2008 at 6:50pm
The flattens are on layer 7?? Sorry, but since FSX came out I've lost what little I knew about SBuilder in FS9. But you can check the tutorials at FSFreeflow, which is where it all started for me. http://www.fs-freeflow.com/forum2/index.php?topic=715.0
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HolgerS View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HolgerS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-08-2008 at 11:39pm

Hello Sidney,

it's one the main annoyances with FS9 that flattens cannot be excluded. It's possible to edit the FL files (append it to SBuilder and then edit and recompile) but each of those files covers an entire LOD5 section so your edited file may interfere with other edited files from other authors. (I am sooooo glad this has been resolved in FSX!)

Thus, if you only have a single airport to fix the better approach would be to override the default flatten. The best way to do this is to use "sloped" flattens (LWM3 code) as they will always override "normal" LWM2 flattens. SBuilder will automatically compile a flatten as LWM3 if one of the poly points has a different altitude from the others. If you need your area to be flat you can simply give one of the points a slightly different altitude, e.g., plus or minus 0.1m. Otherwise, if you need to make the default flatten smaller, you can create slopes in those areas with the help of LWM3 polys. It can be a bit tedious for larger areas but works quite well and doesn't require editing default files. An image of how those sloped flattens (the gray polys) look like for a larger airport is included in this thread: http://www.uk2000scenery.org/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=a5a2a9203d53720e8ab05ee747619c27&topic=414.0 Note that the process is the pretty much the same for FS9.

Bgl2Xml, Bglanalyze, and bglxml can decompile only files compiled with BglComp.exe. All FS9 poly and landscape files were compiled with resample.exe and you need to use LWMViewer decompile to source or append via SBuilder.

Also, FL* files in the UT folders are actually road flattens, not airport flattens. But I don't think you were talking about UT files in this case.

Cheers, Holger

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Sid Schwartz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sid Schwartz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June-09-2008 at 12:38am

Thanks, Holger. I had considered overriding the default flatten with a sloped flatten made using Sbuilder, but I'm afraid it would take an enormous amount of time to come up with something that looks decent. The reason is that the misplaced flatten/airport is right in the middle of a mountain. It was on reasonably flat terrain I probably wouldn't even bother removing it. I'm hoping that if I remove the flatten the mountain will return to what it's supposed to look like. I think  appending the FL bgl to Sbuilder and just removing that one flatten is going to be the best compromise. The airport is rather remote, so hopefully it won't interfere with someone else's work. Confused

Sidney Schwartz
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