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Considering a New build AMD/Intel ?

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RuneENHD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Considering a New build AMD/Intel ?
    Posted: January-24-2021 at 7:28pm
Hey there good people! Happy New year to all of you!! Big smile

My Intel i7 975 Extreme edition X58 build that Nick N. recommended!! is still going strong Smile Smile I have only upgraded the Graphics card from the EVGA Nvidia GTX-285 to a used pre-owned Nvidia GTX-Titan 6GB, Later roughly 2 years ago, I also added some extra G-skill Trident Ram for Aerofly Scenery (GEO-processing for satelite scenery).  it seemed to be a highly demanding task... and my poor computer with its superfast 14cas DDR-3 1600 Gskill ram of only 6GB(3x2GB) crashed/locking up ALL the PC under processing all the time..so I needed minimum 12GB of Ram for that GEO-scenery task it seemed... I think I ended up with 15GB of ram.. lol.. I wanted 16 or 20gb.. but somehow it only gave 14-15gb ram..lol..


But now it seems this PC is "getting" a bit long in the tooth and bit outdated though.. hehe.. 
I will just add a Samsung SSD Pro and clone it for my Autodesk CAD-software and keep it on windows 7 Professional for the rest of it's life
Would you belive that I never did over-clock it LOL... an Extreme edition CPU newer clocked... hahha.. LOL what a waste... Wink But I think Nicks optimized UNCLOCKED BIOS/Windows settings and the really FAST ram saved it from being obsolete.. over time.. LOL

well I am now looking for a new Build was thinking either AMD Ryzen 5000 the 5600x/5800x/5900x/5950x  or an Intel 10-series build , but I kinda desided that z490 would be very fast for GAMING/Siming and Intel Rocket Lake with a rumored IPC increase of 20% made it a bit easier to choose the Intel build, also only the AMD Ryzen 3 5800x where available for purchase here in Norway..

So at least I have gotten hold of "some" hardware, I hope I chose the good and right stuff..
Mainboard seemed like the Z490 ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) came highly recommended and it also had a discount for this mainboard, soo I just purchased that item a few minutes ago.. Big smile
last year I got hold of a 3080 after a long stressful search on the web no NEW cards to buy in the stores or the webstores.. also I had to pay SCALPER-Price.. but not too bad priced and it WAS Brand NEW in the box never opened/used.. Big smile .BUUUT EXPENSIVE OUCH..OuchShocked.  quite a bit more than in the USA, but in Europe it much more expensive far away from MSRP.. but I think I got a "Good Card" from the AIB partner Palit  - (Hardware unboxed gave it a glowing review (The look is an acquired taste though...hahhah)LOLLOL ummm a BIT BLING.. If you have seen a GSKILL Royal Ram kit you know how it looks LOL...

----------------------------------
So Hardware I have accumulated and avaliable for this build right now is this:
Mainboard : (just purchased this..)
Z490 ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI)

Graphics card: 
Palit Game Rock Nvidia RTX-3080 (Non OC-version, but with the same good cooler as the OC-version) 3-PCIE connections required, so NOT power starved.. like many other cheaper cards.."I think it has 420watt avaliable for enthusiast's to unlock.."

++ a  new VR headset : HP Reverb G2 (preordered back in July/August... just got it right before Christmas the December 16. 2020), Yes I have that stupid helmet that you strap to the forehead... hahha..LOL LOL Though it is my FIRST Headset ever... so I am quite exited to complete this PC-build.. Big smile
---------------------------------------
So hoping for some good advice from the really knowledgeable people here..
I also need advice for a new case for water/ a big CPU AIO-cooler with very good airflow and 
PLUS a new PSU(highly important it seems..?) Corsair? what about Gold vs Platinum vs Titanium AX , RM(/i/x) , HX/HX(i) 

Basicly I need a complete build so feel free to add advice , I was also thinking of a M.2 disk of 1Terabyte WD 
WD Blue SN550 1TB NVMe M.2 SSD 
M.2 2280, PCIe 3.0 x4, NVMe, 2400/1950MB/s read/write
WDS100T2B0C

Good or bad ? 
 

For memory I am considering this ? most of the other versions are sold out for now..they are extortionately priced though OUCH..

F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR


or this highly priced item (IS IT made of GOLD or something???) DeadOuchShockedShockedCry

F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN


Kind regards from Norway
PS apologies for bad grammar, I'm not a native English guy.. Embarrassed 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT .. haha.. "the Forum Signature" is kind of outdated LOOOL...  LOL just so you know, did not see it before now..
Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
GTX Titan 6GB , Windows 7 pro , CH Yoke CH pedals , saitek gear/switch panel and throttle

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Avidean View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-24-2021 at 10:09pm
Nick published a new build guide for the i9 10900k on z4900. Specifically the MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI) with F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR recommended. I built a system following the guide. Highly recommended. As usual following the guide to letter is a must! Get that memory will its still available. Here is the link to the guide:

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-02-2021 at 7:09am
Hey thanks for the answer, Avidian , Thank you for guide NICK N. Really appreciate the Good advice you give us! 
BTW could you help me out choosing some more core parts..It is rather difficult ordering cerrain stufx here in Norway right now..

I am going for the 10900k build 
Mainboard *check*
3080 *check*

PSU ?
Case ? / best case-fans/ radiator fans?
AIO ?

SSD/M.2 ?  Samsung EVO/PRO ?
 is there a BIG difference with WD Blue M.2 550 1TB/2TB and WD 850 1TB/2TB Black ?


Will purchase the 10900K later today (found a very good price)
Also will "try and get" the G.Skill 4000 C15 Memory 32(4×8GB kit) "but it is minimum 7days out.."

But Powersupply ? HX850 Platinum or similar "have very long ordering times.."

Also Corsair AIO ? is there big difference between Corsair 150 pro XTand the150 ICUE capellix ? I understand the Z73 by NZXT is and older design..?

Just want the BEST COOLER don't really care about RGB ..? 


Can I get a 1000w-1200watt recomendation ? instead what would be a good  PSU  from Corsair here ? 1000AX ? how about the "i" v2 after oroduxt codes 1000w HX an 1200w HX is VERY Backordered...

Appreciate some input... ?
Thanks in advance

Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
GTX Titan 6GB , Windows 7 pro , CH Yoke CH pedals , saitek gear/switch panel and throttle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-02-2021 at 2:22pm
Everything is backordered.....must be a Covid19 consequence.
I have never ever seen anything like this before!

I had the basics for thus build quite fast (MB/CPU/RAM), but everything else is just horrible.
Sold out.....maybe in 2 weeks, maybe in a month, its crazy.
So I am just just buying whatever I can get my hands on and that means I am not getting it cheap!

The worst is the GPU, no 3080 at all and 3090 at absolutely horrendous prices (>2200€!!!!)

But 1000W PSUs are also sold out here.
I ordered one somewhere but I am not sure when I will get that...they say in 10-14 days it will be available again....but that could be a big fat lie :-(

I am now trying to find out if there is a difference between M.2 NVMe brands myself.
And I need to find out if I need one or two of them?!

In the past we installed Windows on one SSD and FSX (and scenery add ons) on another SSD for better performance.
So if that is still true then I need to get two of those at something like 500Gb and 1 Tb
Or 1 NVMe and 1 SSD (same size)

If Win10 and FSX and FS2020 can all go on one disc then I could get just one big (2Tb) NVMe.

Edit: 
hmmm thinking of it, one huge NVMe C drive of 2TB will not make it easy to backup the OS and installed software :-( (huge backup images!)

Unless I create two partitions on the NVMe?!

Does anybody know if it is ok to create partitions of 500GB and 1500GB on a 2TB NVMe?
Probably not beneficial for life expectancy of the device right? :-(

Rob



Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-02-2021 at 3:23pm
Think of NVMe like any other SSD, just far faster.

You can partition and use the same as it has no moving parts but you should install the NVMe software that sets TRIM and you also need to properly over provision each one. (means it places free space for maintenance) .. again, homework time

Or you can use 2..  SATA SSD was limited by SATA port bandwidth.

What you do have to be careful of is sharing of ports for NVMe. Most boards give you a M.2 slot that doesn't share, and the other when in use either shares, or, disables SATA ports. You could also opt for a NVMe PCIe card that has the M.2 socket and fits into a PCIe slot (check sharing again for disabling other features or interfering with video adapter)

That is all in the motherboard manual. 

As for different NVMe quality..  like the sharing issue you need to do your homework. The higher end Samsung drives have been the better choice for some years. I have no idea what is best now. Haven't been reading up in a while.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-02-2021 at 8:44pm
Hi, closing in on my build now..  Smile

--------
Parts I got (some I just purchased earlier this evening)

CPU:   Intel 10900K  *check*
Motherboard:  Asus ROG Maximus XIII Hero (Wifi)   *check*
Graphics card:  Palit Game-Rock AIB card 3080 10GB   *check*
CPU cooler AIO:  Corsair iCUE150 RGB PRO "XT"  - CW-9060045-WW   *check*
Windows 10 Pro 64bit  *check*
HDD:  SSD Samsung EVO 970 2TB  *check*
VR Headset:  HP Reverb G2  *check*


--------------------
MISSING PARTS I don't have right now.. have to play waiting game... Wacko

Hopefully RAM will be :G.Skill F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR (4x8GB)
Ram stick kit   still"MISSING"

Hopefully PSU will be : Corsair CP-9020151-EU
PSU Corsair AX-850W (Titanium sert.)    still "MISSING"

PC Case :probably the Fractal Design XL-7 BIG


Kind Regards 
RuneENHD

Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
GTX Titan 6GB , Windows 7 pro , CH Yoke CH pedals , saitek gear/switch panel and throttle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-02-2021 at 9:21pm
Just an FYI...  


You don't haft'a have the top dog memory but I would not go less than DDR4 3600 C16-16-16 @ 32GB be 2 or 4 sticks

If you intend to run modern games and especially MSFS 2020 a year or so from now, you best be looking at 20-24GB graphics cards because you will suffer the consequences of that purchase and have to update it, again.


Just sayin.

You may want to use what you have for graphics.. just for now, or pick up a used/new 2080ti.. and wait till the scalpers are finished with the video adapters that should be 699 and 1499 today.


And as the guide says..  if you want that PSU to take you everywhere you may need to go in the future, 1000watts is the new recommendation

850 plat if it is made right will do it but cant say it will 2-3 years from now

There are rumors of a 3080Ti 20GB coming..  just rumors, but you can bet the scalpers will be all over that on it's release if it becomes true.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2021 at 10:34am
Holy moly....I was never interested in AMD.....and I thought they only had more CPU cores than Intell CPUs.....but they are actually light years ahead of Intell!

They are already running with PCIe 4.0 MBs and CPUs and GPUs!

that must beat any Intell machine by lightyears?.....no?

Edit: 
looking at different web sites it seems nothing has changed. Still Intell versus AMD fanboys.
AMD has CPUs for up to 64 cores. But it seems these run so slow (per core) that they are no good for gaming.

If FS2020 really does use multiple cores, then, depending on if it is written to spread the load over 4 or 10 or 20 cores AMD might be better.

on paper:

Intell 10900k 10 core (20HT): Costs upward from 530€ where I live.
3.7 to 5.3 GHz turbo boost
20MB smart cashe
8 GT per sec bus speed
Max mem bandwidth 45,8 GB/s

AMD 5950X 16 cores (32 HT): (this seems to be theirs fastest gaming CPU) 
This CPU is sold out everywhere but would sell for around 1000€ it seems.
3.4 to 4.9 GHz boost
64MB L3 cashe devided over 2 chipset it seems.
bus speed....no info...but that should be those 16GT per second PCIe 4.0
Max mem bandwidth...no info.

For the same price (1000€) as the AMD top dog you could also get an 18 core Intel 10980XE top dog (or should I say old dog as this thing is from 2019!)
3.0 to 4.8 GHz boost
24,75 MB cashe
bus speed 8GT/s
max mem bandwidth 94GB/s


So 10 (20HT)or 16 (32HT) cores...how many can FS2020 use now?
And how many can it use in 2 years?
Can and will the software be updated to use more cores kinda like FSX that went 64bit with P3D?

Most benchmarks show the AMD be clearly faster than Intel.
But I also remember to that FSX can be compared to a game...I assume FS2020 is the same.
So I am going to stop waisting my time on those benchmarks.

It seems to me AMD have caught up or even passed Intel.
So one can opt for either one and with AMD already using PCIe 4.0 this does make more sense.
(I already ordered the parts for my Intel build, and I will stick with that because I have the best info available (thx Nick!) to make it run right.
AMD could be better....but to put it in Nicks words....if you know how to use it ;-)

Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2021 at 4:13pm
As far as my choice of NVMe M.2 SSD for my OS goes, I found one made by ADATA that outperforms the Samsung evo 970 plus in many areas like random read/write (burst and sustained).
When it comes to sequential read write the two are quite close except in one are (see below).

I was initially leaning towards Samsung, but now I am leaning towards ADATA.
(Unless I come across info somewhere that shows this brand dies on you faster than others)

The only test where the Samsung was about 20% faster than the ADATA was for 
Sustained 128 kb Sequential Read performance on a defragmented drive.

(Unexpected for me, but it does seem to matter whether or not data is defragmented because the same read test after the data was written sequentially gave a different result between the brands)

I dont know when sustained 128kb seq is going to be defragmented first and then read!?

It almost seems like this defragmentation is going to be more of a problem as the disk gets older and more so for the Windows OS drive (data written all over the place all the time) than on a scenery drive for FSX (data written once and then left alone).

So maybe this ADATA drive will provide a faster responding OS the first few years...and then later....the Samsung would start catching up?


Eeehhh....Anandtech seems to have some testing problems.
So first the Samsung was faster according some destroyer test....but due to problems they dropped that.
So now (without the destroyer test) the ADATA is faster (except for what the one area I mentioned above).

So I have no idea now :-(

I think I will choose the prettiest one

or one that is made in Europe to support our economy!


Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheFamilyMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2021 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

There are rumors of a 3080Ti 20GB coming..  just rumors, but you can bet the scalpers will be all over that on it's release if it becomes true.

Latest word on the streets is that Nvidia is tabling 3080/3090 follow on development until they can actually sell enough current 3080/3090 cards to meet (what they consider) the demand.  This hints that a 3080 ti will eventually be released, though its 20GB VRAM is mostly speculation (heck, even 15GB would be excellent).  I'm guessing that won't it be until fall 2021 before it's announced.  Dang, I got to wait this out far long than originally expected; just can't see spending $$$ on a gcard with only 10GB in 2021.  Heck the 1080 ti had 11GB back in 2017, WTF Nvidia!!!.
Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.2 no HT, Asus Maximus XII Hero, 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16, EVGA GTX 1070 SC, Noctua NH-D15S, Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU

Win 10 Pro 64, Asus 25" IPS 2K monitor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic_baron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2021 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by TheFamilyMan TheFamilyMan wrote:


Latest word on the streets is that Nvidia is tabling 3080/3090 follow on development until they can actually sell enough current 3080/3090 cards to meet (what they consider) the demand.  

I think you mean they can actually MAKE enough cards to fill the demand. Between the scalpers and the bitcoin miners EVGA is about 4 months behind on orders. It's ridiculous, they buy a cards and immediately throw in on ebay for a $500+ premium.

I put my 3 year old 1080ti on ebay and got $500 for it.  I plan on hanging on to my 2080TI for a while.

Vic
3770K 4.7G ASUS Z77 1600 7-8-7 GTX1080ti 850W 2-1TB WD HDD,1tb VRap, HAF942 - H100 water W10 Pro

7700K 5.0g Asus X270F 3600 15-15-15 RTX3090 1000W PSU 2-256G OCZ SSD, 1TB,HAFX-H100 Water W10 Pro
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2021 at 5:41pm
The cheapest used 2080Ti (11Gb) I found, sells for 800€....pfff
And it does not even have the 384-bit memory bandwidth the top cards have (it has 352-bit)

It does have a warranty till the end of 2021.

It just does not seem to make sense to spend that kinda money on something that is not enough today, forget in a year from now (for FS2020).

This sucks big time!
Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote webestereo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-03-2021 at 11:09pm
Very intereting information here....  Loved the guide...

Well i took off the plunge back in 2015 got my 6700k, 32GB RAM, the 1070GTX and my CHG90 Monitor witc full SSD tech, Nvme, etc........   only one year or two after that.... PUMM  RTX, 4K....Ouch    

I can tell im still doing pretty well with my P3DV5 and MSFS....     Feels like needs a bit of work yet to feel like realistic enough and software availability seems pretty slow due to the development process in place, so...im squeezing my system and see what is next for 2022 before attepmting to upgrade.

Yep AMD is catching my eyes after so many years sticked to Intel, may be only one year ahead we will have a tremendous step forward regarding this PC Tech features battle....

Ill wait a bit....  Lets go flying for now! Beer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheFamilyMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2021 at 3:07pm
Well, at least in Nvidia's defense (do they really deserve any), the gtx 2080 has only 8GB (but so does my gtx 1070).  When I parted out my 10700 build about a year ago I gave the gtx 2080 Super a serious look, but its 8GB was the only reason I didn't get one at that time (heck, a deal at around $650...what was I thinking Dead).   Hard to imagine that that 1070 would be giving me 5 years of satisfactory service (but not totally by choice).
Rod O.

i7 10700k @5.2 no HT, Asus Maximus XII Hero, 2x16GB DDR4 4000 cas 16, EVGA GTX 1070 SC, Noctua NH-D15S, Thermaltake GF1 850W PSU

Win 10 Pro 64, Asus 25" IPS 2K monitor
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2021 at 4:26am
Nick N. ?
"Top-Dog" RAM sticks 
3800c14  vs 4000 c15  

 which is BEST ? of theese two 32GB kits ?
Is 4000 FASTER ? It has even lower C14 on 3800 ? So wondering if price i"s less important" would you go for a 3800 c14 32GB kit vs something that is out of stock or too long ordering times ? 
Thanks
Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2021 at 5:53am
3800 C14 could be roughly the same speed as 4000 C15 depending on sub timings but there is no way to know if the memory will work with the board unless it is on the Asus QVL which is why it was suggested DDR4 3600 may be a better choice if the QVL memory can not be found.
FYI  Lower speed memory, easier and better compatibility when working OUTSIDE the QVL.

If it is 3800 C14-14-14   3800 C14-15-15   3800 C14-16-16        OK!

If it is 3800 C14-19-19  3800 C 14-18-18  3800 C14-19-20         NO! LOL

What's on the QVL?

I think you got this Beer


Hans

W10 Pro, 10900K, ROG Maximus XII Hero, ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 3090 24GB Gaming OC, GSKILL F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR, Corsair H150i RGB PRO XT, Fractal Design 7XL, Corsair HX850
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2021 at 6:38pm
I still have 16GB Gskill 3600 15/15/15/35 Lying around...going to waste :-(

When they were available and recommended, I though it was smart to get them while I could.
For my next build.

Now that I am building my next build I see that 32GB is recommended.

If only I had gotten 32GB back then :-(

No idea what to do with these sticks other them keep them as a spare :-(
Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-06-2021 at 5:02am
In case there is anybody out there with that same set of sticks lying around....PM me!

thx
Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmcraib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2021 at 10:18am
hmmm, good question.....

let me think about it for a moment, I would say.... oh yeah....

Intel!!!

LOL LOL LOL
W7 & FSX runs on:
i7-8700k @ 3.7GHz, Gigabyte Z370
GTX1070
2 x Corsair 8GB DDR4-3000
Samsung 512GB NVMe SSD, WD Black 4TB & WD Raptor 150GB HDD's
Not O/C yet, still working through the bible...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmcraib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-08-2021 at 10:28am
In all seriousness though, great thread.

I'm not really up to speed on current crop of hardware, so only comment I would have on your build is to ditch W10 and go with W7!!
Although it might be tricky to run with that CPU, I know I had trouble and technically should not have been able to.  It was mostly to do with the NVMe but drivers are available for W7.

Oh yeah not sure how much space you will need for the OS but 2TB seems hefty, maybe overkill but can see the argument for future proofing - providing it lasts long enough...
But defo go for the 970 Pro, I have this and its ace! But in the 512GB flavour and that is plenty for my W7 build (including future, spare room).
Save your cash and go for the 512GB or maybe the 1TB.

The cards, well I understand the 3000 series actually gives you more bang for buck than the 2000.  The recommendation is to skip the 2000 and go for a 3.  I think maybe cheaper price per card too?

If I were to upgrade I would go for a 3000.  I think the numbering has changed though.  traditionally I have gone for the xx70 as a higher end enthusiast card but not top dollar.  But one reason is I have ran SLi in past systems.  This has for the most part served well in cost effectiveness and longevity (I had 2 x 6800 Ultras up to 2010/2011).
I thought the 3090 was equivalent of the ti.  But not sure, read an article a few weeks ago on the RTX cards (I run a GTX 1070) but cant remember which one.  Will post a link if I can find it.

A pal of mine has an RTX 3090 in a top end PC.  I told him he will still struggle to run MSFS! 
Tongue in cheek perhaps but I think it will take a while for the hardware to be at a level (and pricepoint) to get the most out of MSFS, particularly with add-ons.  Which has always been the case.
W7 & FSX runs on:
i7-8700k @ 3.7GHz, Gigabyte Z370
GTX1070
2 x Corsair 8GB DDR4-3000
Samsung 512GB NVMe SSD, WD Black 4TB & WD Raptor 150GB HDD's
Not O/C yet, still working through the bible...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2021 at 5:45pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Just an FYI...  

You don't haft'a have the top dog memory but I would not go less than DDR4 3600 C16-16-16 @ 32GB be 2 or 4 sticks

If you intend to run modern games and especially MSFS 2020 a year or so from now, you best be looking at 20-24GB graphics cards because you will suffer the consequences of that purchase and have to update it, again.


Nick , woud it be possible to run with just "one" 16GB stick of Ram or do they have to be a pair of 2 x8GB for modern systems? Do the have to be dual rank??  then? if only 2 is used..instead of 4x8GB kit

PS there probably a million grammar errors.. sorry in advance..

I'm having real trouble getting the backordered G.skill C15 4000 32GB-kit
(But I will order it anyway.. I' wont give up yet..) 
So buying a cheaper but good enough Ram-kit(something hopefully on the QVL) to test with meanwhile i'm "waiting" This would also be good to have backup should the get errors or somthing needs to be tested.
What are your thoughts ? Embarrassed

BTW, I just sold my 3080 and got the "Bigshot" ASUS ROG Strix 3090 24GB OC Gaming  LOL Price was...... uuuuuhmm... UHMMMMM "horrible"(crazy me...)CensoredWacko 
and I want the build to survive without upgrades(I'm sure I'm gonna eat my woords later but...) a few years at least and VR headset is really demanding, and other VR guys highly recomend the 10900k +3090 combination soo I just bit the bullet

Btw
Also I managed to secure a Corsair AX-1000 "Titanium efficiency" PSU Big smile instead of Platinum 850

You guys have Outlined "a MEGA MONSTER Build" on the Z490 Maximus Hero  -  I'm trying to stick to the Recipe... with c15 4000Ram,10900k,3090-24GB

I'm thinking about perhaps building my PC-case from scratch with 20x20Alu extrusion with the best possible dimensions for 200mm best Noctua fans and best air-flow and room to spare for radiators for perhaps possible Water cooling build for both CPU AND GPU instead of the Corsair-150-360mm rad down the road, I'm quite intrigued by this idea, and I love to design stuff in my spare time i'm a CAD Desiger "not an engineer" 
What I dont like with standard cases is the usually get out spec, you cant build a certain build if trends for hardware cooling change as it has done many times the last decades.

Btw I would gladly share the finished case design with you guys should you be intrrested to builf your own.. its like building LEGO/Mecano this alu. 20x20 extrusion thing. Big smile

Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
GTX Titan 6GB , Windows 7 pro , CH Yoke CH pedals , saitek gear/switch panel and throttle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-09-2021 at 11:09pm
You need a minimum of TWO sticks for a dual channel CPU like the 10900K. 
One stick will technically work, but then only one memory channel is used which means a performance loss.
We memtest each stick, one at the time, when building the system PRIOR to installing Windows but that's the only time there is just one stick in the system LOL

If the CPU has two memory channels ----> minimum 2 sticks
If the CPU has four memory channels----->minimum 4 sticks
And so on...

The ROG Maximus XII Hero has four SLOTS, so either two or four sticks should be used.
It will still be a dual channel system. Don't confuse the number of memory slots with the channels.
Hans

W10 Pro, 10900K, ROG Maximus XII Hero, ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 3090 24GB Gaming OC, GSKILL F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR, Corsair H150i RGB PRO XT, Fractal Design 7XL, Corsair HX850
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2021 at 3:07am
Thank you again Fly Happy! Thumbs Up
Could you recommend a good but not very expensive perhaps a 3200-3600 speed G.skill or Corsair16GB kit thats on QVL? 
 and does not reduce performance too much "when not overclocking" too much ?

Please provide the correct SKU-code for it, as we have for the Gskill kits, so it is easy to look for the right parts when shopping.??


Thanks,  it's difficult this ram stick stuff especially when there is dual rank vs single rank.. ShockedWackoWacko MATHS is NOT my Forte...EmbarrassedEmbarrassedConfused

I don't want snail pace Ram performance either hehe..LOL
But this 16GB Ram-kit is only to get the Build started and start flying again.. even unclocked... Smile

BTW are you still happy with your Fractal Design XL7 BIG PC case choice? would you have gone it a diffrent route/diffrent pc case solution "if you could" ?

Thanks in advance!! Big smile
Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmcraib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2021 at 5:27am
Well I didn't realise that RAM channels and slots could be different!
I always thought it was a channel per slot, but there you go.

I used to have Corsair TwinX in a previous system, still got a set lying around I think (no DDR2 board to put them in though).
If I remember right I was looking at one of the Q series processors, early SLI days as aI recall.  maybe my Asus board (which is why I hate them now)...

Just had a look  in the 'archives', it was an Asus P5N32-SLI 'Deluxe', LGA775, nForce 4 the deluxe part being it was a luxury to be able to get it running properly and with a stable O/C (not really it was the 2 x16 PCI-e slots for SLI, which is still a bit of a rarity today never mind in 2006)!
I think I had a P4 3.0GHz or 3.2 in there (maybe the 3.2 came later).
The RAM was the corsair TwinX 3200C2 Pro, 512MB with the LED's!!
Yes C2 LOL

Actually looking at my shortlist I have Q9 series CPU's (never bought one went for dual instead, maybe E8400 or E8500) and then everything became quad.

Long time ago now, can't remember why I posted, oh yeah the RAM...

Go for Corsair (yes I'm a bit of a fan boy but they have served me well) 2 x 8GB Dominator, should be cheap enough if you are only looking for a temp solution.  Most of them would be on the QVL I would expect.
Generally I would go for 2 sticks vs 4, eg 2 x 8 rather than 4 x 8.  But then I don't need 32GB, 16GB is fine for me.
W7 & FSX runs on:
i7-8700k @ 3.7GHz, Gigabyte Z370
GTX1070
2 x Corsair 8GB DDR4-3000
Samsung 512GB NVMe SSD, WD Black 4TB & WD Raptor 150GB HDD's
Not O/C yet, still working through the bible...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gmcraib Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2021 at 5:30am
ps I found my TwinX sticks, 3200XL-Pro, still with LED's.
2 x 512MB dual channel, 2-2-2-5 easy enough when you're on 400MHz!
I think I sold the C2's. 

Things were a lot simpler then, at least in respect to clock speeds.
W7 & FSX runs on:
i7-8700k @ 3.7GHz, Gigabyte Z370
GTX1070
2 x Corsair 8GB DDR4-3000
Samsung 512GB NVMe SSD, WD Black 4TB & WD Raptor 150GB HDD's
Not O/C yet, still working through the bible...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-10-2021 at 5:51am
Rune, you waited HOW MANY YEARS before this build and now you can't wait another week or two for the 4000 CL15 kit?

Please stop messing around with ideas about using temporary kits. If you haven't ordered the 4000 CL15 kit, do it now and move on.

And sure, I'm happy with my 7XL case.


Hans

W10 Pro, 10900K, ROG Maximus XII Hero, ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 3090 24GB Gaming OC, GSKILL F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR, Corsair H150i RGB PRO XT, Fractal Design 7XL, Corsair HX850
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2021 at 5:13am
Hi, Fly happy, Thank you for good consumer advice, I appreciate it! EmbarrassedSmile

If it were only that easy!! though, WackoErmm 
I check daily for Ram pricing on this SKU: F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR 
BUT I only end up frustrated, It is constantly getting moved "further into future" on avaliability.. 1-2 days extra on an allready long delivery, and worst part is it is NOT even confirmed... CryOuch its an ANTICIPATED DATE..WackoWackoConfused

Even if I would choose a higher priced alternative website they don't have it in stock...and I would prefer to buy from a reputable shop which have a good customer feedback/Good RMA policy.. There are many wolfes in the computer parts market right now... Confused

So starting to look for alternatives which "could be in stock" at moment of purchase ? Sorry for beeing an anoyance/newb Ouch but I am only looking for the best buy for my money! 

So providing the Number-1 choice , which is on the Asus QVL list
this CL15 4000  - SKU:  F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR 

what would Number-2 choice be then ? Could this be any good?
CL 16 3600 ?    SKU:  F4-3600C16Q-32GTZRC

what would Number-3 choice be then ? Could this be any good?


what would Number-4 choice be then ? Could this be any good?


Thank you soo much in advance I rely on the Gurus , I really do NOT understand RAM (especially maths/formulas...) appart from going lower CAS(CL ?) the lowe and faster the better , and also with the highest Mhz speed possible, but I sort of understand  that we should fill up 4 slots with ram for higest memory speed with 4x "single rank" Ram, if we dont get 2x dual rank(Samsung?) Ram sticks?

So I have to rely on people like Nick N. "and other knowledable people" here to give sound advice what to buy 
Thank you so much in advance for shearing your genrerosity about computer advice! escecially choosing the right components that work together, and don't compromize the systems speed in any way. EmbarrassedClap


Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-13-2021 at 10:18am
Hans

W10 Pro, 10900K, ROG Maximus XII Hero, ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 3090 24GB Gaming OC, GSKILL F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR, Corsair H150i RGB PRO XT, Fractal Design 7XL, Corsair HX850
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2021 at 4:02pm
One step forward.. TWO STEPS BACKWARDS.... Wrong powersupply DOOOOOH...Censored I'm loosing my patience with this build soon.. everything is either out of stock/backordered or extortionately priced.. or JUST UNAVALIABLE AT ALL... OuchOuch 

NO Single Rail/Multi-Rail switching and no i-cue- 3xradiator fans software setup?
I thought that a 1000Watt "TITANIUM" PSU was "a top of the line" Premium PSU buuuut... NOooo CryWackoThumbs Down
and the AX name is used as a FLAGGSHIP the AXi1600  ... talk about confusing lineup of powersupplys from Corsair..ShockedWackoWacko

sorry appologize for the shouting/caps.. but it is stressing me and wearing me thin.. PinchWackoShockedGeek
this is the 4th time today I tried to post this message 2 times on the stupid Touch-phone and 2 times on this silly Asus Zenbook laptop which has a touchpad from ..H...LL Evil Smile Dead 4th. time "a touch-pad" interface mess up my message...

Soo "Reality check" Ouch for the 10900K-BUILD "parts inventory" so to speak.. 
(I now completely understand user "777simmer"  's Frustration .....) GeekWacko


Motherboard: Asus ROG Maximus Hero  *check* (I have this!)
CPU: intel 10900K - Ordered/purchased (BUT STILL MISSING)
GPU: Asus ROG Strix Gaming OC - 3090 24GB *check* (I have this!)
RAM: SKU:  F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR (- Ordered/purchased("today") (BUT STILL MISSING)
PSU: Corsair AX1000... Wroong PSU SPEC..(- Ordered/purchased) going back to store again!
PSU: Corsair HX850 80 PLUS Platinum (- Ordered/purchased("today") (BUT STILL MISSING)
HDD: M.2 SSD - Samsung 970 Evo+ 2TB  - Ordered/purchased (BUT STILL MISSING)
-------------------
OS: Windows 10 Professional - Ordered/purchased (BUT STILL MISSING)
VR-Headseat : HP Reverb G2   *check* (I have this!)

And of course the playing WAITING GAME AGAIN.... on non-stop shuffle repeat..  Wacko
Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
GTX Titan 6GB , Windows 7 pro , CH Yoke CH pedals , saitek gear/switch panel and throttle

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donovan16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2021 at 4:33pm
The hardware list looks good.  Just do yourself a favor and don't skimp on a high-airflow case and proper fans to move the air efficiently.  Patience and thoroughness are your best virtues and will reap rewards in the end.  

Heat and "get-there-itis" are the enemies.  Wink  
i9 10900K 5.2 GHz, ROG Maximus Hero XII, RTX 3090, 32 Gb GSkill TridentZ 4000 15-16-16, 1Tb Samsung 970 EVO Plus, 2Tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD, (2) 2 Tb WD 7200 HDs, Corsair H150i, Win10 Pro x64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RuneENHD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-14-2021 at 6:34pm
Hi , what case do you use? Embarrassed Yes I know about hot pc case its not good..
 I have a Silverstone Temjin TJ10 right now "with that opening in the middle of the case" with a dedicated 120x120 fan for GPU cooling! 
sadly that case do not support modern watercooling AIO radiator sizes of 360mm OR BIGGER (before that I had a trusty LianLi PC60USB with only moderate aircooling)

I'm now dedicating that Temjin TJ10 case and old Hx-850 psu to to my Autodesk 2013 CAD-pc use on my old X58 build in my sig..I have ordered a Samsung Pro SSD for it. As soon as my 10900K build "can" start building (maaany parts orderd but still missing)

i'm considering building it myself.. like this guy "spotswood" in the USA does..:
https://hardforum.com/threads/gauging-interest-in-build-your-own-case-kits.1738651/page-4

Post#133 "down the thread there on the page" has 20mmx20mm alu extrusion T-slot which is curved and closed on the outer side which does look quite ok in my opinion and it could be highly modular for every sitiuation cooling solutions Smile there is a guy that build a crazy 560mm radiator with 5x140mm fans in a seperate water-cooling tower and waterblock on his 2080Ti and he set "many" records .. perfect for toasty 3090 I would say... lol LOLBig smile 
Ek USA and a few others, are now building/designing "active backplate cooling" waterblock on the 30 series cards.. still in testing phase and only for select designs Nvida reference design especially..

I have the 40x40 T-slot for my Racing/flightsim rig and I love the customization of it.. you can fit and modify anything it seems.. Big smile
20x20 or 40x40 is a industry standard.. anything fits .. if you buy the right parts.. I would prefer 20x20 Black Anodized.. but but  there is also 10x10mm but that is a "more" closed standard "from MakerBeam"... and the screws are tiny.. LOL you would loose them before you could almost build something..3mm and smaller it seams..

I'm thinking totally hardcore 200x200mm Noctua fans only ?? Tongue with a fan controller or software of course, My idea was 3-4 200mm fans in the front LOL...LOLLOL and perhaps 2 in the back or just 1-2 140mm fans.. I would kind of need some air flow theory from you guys though to build it for correct airflow.. but I would think it would be quite efficent hahha even a low fan speeds... a full blast it would approach AIRPORT-Levels I would guess ....TongueLOLTongueShocked

If that fails .. too expensive BOM(Bill of Materials) or something then I am considering corsair 1000D or Fractal Design XL-7 Big(like Fly happy in sweeden) without the tempered glass window.. or the "new" Fractal design Meshify-XL  ? he has used the 200x200mm noctua I belive, that gave me the crazy idea what if I made a case of ONLY 200x200mm fans..LOL


Asus X-58 Deluxe V2 - Intel i7 i7-975 Extreme Edition @3.3GHz(non clocked) , 6GB Tripple-channel DDR3 ,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donovan16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2021 at 12:37am
I went with one of Thermaltake's full tower cases  -- the Core X71. It has enough options for mounting fans to ensure good air intake and outflow.  It also provides multiple options on where to locate the AIO radiator/fans up to a 480mm radiator. I removed the disc racks from the main enclosure and used low profile mounting racks to place my SSDs and HDs on the backside of the "firewall" thus leaving airflow unimpeded in the main compartment. The back compartment is deep enough to allow sufficient airflow so all drives run cool.  

It allows plenty of options and easy access for good cable management and provides easy access for maintenance.  The case is made to accommodate custom loop cooling but that was never my goal.

Really, it provided what I wanted for a surprisingly reasonable price. There were a number other brands of cases that also fit the bill.

Take your measurements and consider what you personally need and want to accommodate in your computer build, then take a look at what's available in your area that fits your requirements. Its something you're going to have to decide for yourself.  

As long as you follow the principle of providing enough air flow to carry and dump the heat outside of the case environment (and don't locate the case in a confined space like under a desk "re-breathing" the heated air) there are any number of cases/chassis that would serve you well -- there's not necessarily a single "best" choice.
 
i9 10900K 5.2 GHz, ROG Maximus Hero XII, RTX 3090, 32 Gb GSkill TridentZ 4000 15-16-16, 1Tb Samsung 970 EVO Plus, 2Tb Samsung 860 Pro SSD, (2) 2 Tb WD 7200 HDs, Corsair H150i, Win10 Pro x64
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2021 at 6:42am
RuneENHD

I am going to play 'Whac and Mole" here once.

If you do not understand that term, google it. It means unlike the arcade game, I pop up one time here and that's it.

I made it clear I am not doing tech support and build advice anymore.


The individuals who are trying to help you in this thread thus far have my RARE complete and total confidence. They are not AVSIM idiots nor are they pulling advice out of their arses. Read and review what they advise.


I will address a few concerns since you might feel more comfortable with it coming from me.


1. Your PSU as long as it is a 850 platinum is fine for a single 3090 video adapter, just make sure you have the right power cable connections. The 1000watt recommendation is for future proofing That, was stated in the guide.


2. The memory outlined that appears you have finally ordered is the top-dog but you must also be able to deal with it. My guide talks about that. If not there are 3600 C16-16-16 solutions that are on the Asus QVL and available through the same Swed/Nord hardware website Han's posted that wont require any special attention. 


3. No 'computer guy' or 'computer store' is going to build what I released in outline to clock for performance, for you. They may look at you like you are nuts for requesting that if you try to request and quite frankly, there are very few who are technically experienced enough in a 'computer store' environment who would even be able to comprehend, much LESS do what I outlined in that guide correctly, so if you think you can have someone do what I outlined at a online or even a local computer builder store...    think again.   


ain't gonna happen


There may be a few, but what I outlined is NOT a norm, is totally outside the box and I am sure may have them scratching their heads because of that. Wink



4. If you don't know what you are doing in performance computer tuning, don't do it. What I outlined if followed properly will work, no question about that however as I said in the opening statement in that document:

If you are a compete novice to overclocking I suggest treading very lightly because if you did not build that tower the right way due to lack of experience this can be a very dangerous area to enter.




5. The folks that are trying to assist you know what they are doing but please do not come here asking them how to work that guide. If you think you need that kind of support, then you should not even consider attempting it. Just build the system and let it go at that.





Now, past the above, I turn this all back over to the competent individuals who you can trust for advice but do not think for one minute they are going to walk anyone through a professional performance computer build. They will help you but they are not going to walk you though every part of the process.



If you can deal with that then...

Good Luck!  I hope you obtain what you seek. 





<The mole disappears back down the hole> LOL



 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vic_baron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-15-2021 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:


<The mole disappears back down the hole> LOL

 


 
THWACK! 
Dammit! Missed again!  LOL

3770K 4.7G ASUS Z77 1600 7-8-7 GTX1080ti 850W 2-1TB WD HDD,1tb VRap, HAF942 - H100 water W10 Pro

7700K 5.0g Asus X270F 3600 15-15-15 RTX3090 1000W PSU 2-256G OCZ SSD, 1TB,HAFX-H100 Water W10 Pro
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-16-2021 at 6:37am
So I got a Be Quiet dark base 900 case.

Reason:
1) Every other big case was sold out.
2) It is big and has so many options that I thought it would be good.

I actually think the case is overkill and has ridiculous options, but I did not sent it back, because of reason 1).

The thing really has too many options for me.
For example you can take it apart and rebuild it so the motherbboard is mounted upside down and on the left side wall!
Cool huh?.....well yes and no.
If you are 100% sure you need that....then get this case!
If you dont need that....(that would be me)....then do not get this case (unless there is nothing else available) because this option hinders other functions.

Problems I ran into:
1) I had to remove the DVD tray in the top/front otherwise the huge 360mm Corsair cooler (icue H150i RGB PRO XT) could not be mounted in the top of the case :-(
So the case is really big....but still not big enough.
I saw Fly Happy had done the same so I am guessing there exists no case big enough to hold this coolers radiator in the top without removing the Blueray/DVD tray

Which leads me to an opinion about the recommended water cooler as well by the way...but I will get to that in a minute.

2) To be able to mount the MB upside down they had to move the PSU position a bit forward.
So the PSU can not be mounted against the back!
An on/off switch is pre -mounted at the back so you can still turn the PC on/off as usual. A 20cm extension cable inside the case runs from that switch to the PSU.
The switch on the PSU is always ON.
I dont like that because with the PSU not sitting against the back wall it means the warm PSU air is now vented into the PC. I dont want MORE heat in there!
I also dont like to use a cheap little on/off case switch instead of the original Corsair switch that was made for the purpose and thus surely rated for the 1000W my Corsair PSU has!

Solution: 
I took out the rear bracket with the pre-mounted switch and extension cable and replaced it with a self made perforated PSU mounting bracket.
now the PSU sits where it always sat in the past.
At the back!
And heat is going OUT!

3) due to the many build options, cable management supposedly is not as great as with other cases.
I actually have not gotten the point of hooking up cables yet (MB will be mounted today) so I dont know how much of a problem that will be. But there for sure are more holes than meat in this case so yes....hiding cables could become difficult.

Anyway, if you like cutting metal and making brackets then the case is fine I guess.
It was kinda fun...gave me something to do...but on the other hand kind of ridiculous at the same time. Mixed feelings.

As for the huge water cooler.
I saw some reviews where this Corsair cooler was not mentioned as the best.
It is good but not the best.
I did not dig deeper cause I wanted to get the stuff that had been proven to work as long as it was available.
But now that I have this beast,.....I am thinking...if there would have been a smaller water cooler with sufficient performance I would have preferred that!
I kinda like a Blueray/DVD player in my case.
My backup images have always used a backup boot DVD to recover my system.
No idea if this is required....maybe a bootable USB can be used to recover a backup image?

But even then, I cant even play a blueray with this 2021 build now :-(
It feels incomplete.

The other dillema is that on one hand the big advantage of a water cooler is that heat can be vented out the case directly with the case mounted at the top.
This way CPU heat is not spread inside the case as with an air cooler. So the whole case should be cooler this way.
Nice!
One the other hand, Corsair recommends mounting the radiator and fans so that they draw fresh air into the case. This would obviously improve the radiators cooling capabilities.
Mounting the radiator on the front would achieve that nicely.
However, then you got all that heat being blown inside the case again :-(

My conclusion: 
An optimum water cooler solutions is one where the radiator lives outside the case.
This way it allways gets fresh cool air + hot air is not vented inside the case
I dont understand why them darn case makers dont thermally split a big case in two compartments?!
One compartment with intake fans (top for example) for the CPU cooler radiator and the other (larger) compartment for the MB, GPU, etc.
Just a simple baffle in the top third of the case would do!

Anyway, I mounted my Corsair radiator in the top with the fans blowing air out.

Then I read up on positive and negative air pressure vs dust inside the case.
Postive pressure means (slightly) more air going in than air going out.
This helps preventing dust getting into the case they say.
(negative pressure inside the case will suck dust in).
A little bit of positive pressure they say would be optimal.
I dont know how much this helps, but If you ask me...not much because the intake fans are still pumping air and dust IN!
I fail to see how positive pressure helps there.
What I do see is that with positive pressure you only have dust coming through the fan, which can be equipped with a dust filter.
At least dust will not come in through, and collect at, every crack of the case.
So I will try to achieve positive pressure!

Now, I like dust filters in front of my air intake fans.
And this is where the Be Quiet case really shines....nice filters along the bottom and front that can be easily pulled out for cleaning.

I know filters are not for those with Hepa type air filters in their house (you know who ;-) ) but I need them filters.

Ok, so the Corsair CPU cooler radiator has 3 fans blowing air out at max 225CFM (@2400RPM) air flow.
That is a lot of air going out!
And I need even more air going in if I want positive pressure.
I have settled for the 3x 1000RPM, really silent but low flow, BeQuiet fans (59CFM each) that came with the case.
Plus I bought two more even stronger BeQuiet 1600RPM fans (77CFM each).
They are basically the same fans with a stronger motor.

Fly Happy wrote me that he sees situation where the GPU works a lot and other situations where the CPU works a lot. But it is unusual to see both GPU and CPU to go full power at the same time

With that in mind I have planned the following fan logic:
2x Be Quiet 1000 RPM will run constantly at 1000 RPM (full power) and are controlled by a little device for manual control that came with the case (you cant hear them fans at 1000RPM anyway)
These are mounted on the front (lowest position) and in the bottom of the case.
They pull air in.

1x Be Quiet 1600RPM on the front (middle position) - air intake.
Hooked up to the MB so its speed can be controlled by software.
1600RPM you do hear, so I want the speed variable.
(1600RPM is not crazy loud...but not silent like the 1000RPM fans.)
Now the plan is to have this middle fan controlled by GPU temp (if that is even possible) but it will run at at a minimum of 1000RPM (still silent) at which point it will provide not 77 CFM (its max rating) but only 59 CFM.

1x Be Quiet 1600RPM front/top position - air intake
This front top fan is another reason I cant have the DVD sitting there anymore.
Hooked up to the MB so its speed can be controlled by software.
This fan I want to be controlled by CPU temp.
It blows air right at the Corsair CPU cooler radiator.
It could be off at low CPU temps and on high (1600RPM) during high load.

1x Be Quiet 1000RPM fan top rear position - exhaust
RPM controlled by the MB and to be fine tuned for pos pressure in the case.
This fan is kinda like the outflow valve in a pressurized aircraft LOL

With this setup I hope to get the following results;

at high CPU load:
Air flow in = top front + middle front (at 1000RPM) + low front (1000RPM) + bottom (1000 RPM) =77+59+59+59=254 CFM
Air flow out (Corsair) = 225 CFM
result is pos pressure.
(rear mounted fan not spinning)

At high GPU load I get:
Air flow in = bottom (1000RPM)+ front low (1000RPM)+ front middle (now at 1600RPM) = 59+59+77 = 195CFM

Now lets assume the Corsair radiator fans only need to do 50% (about 110 CFM) of their max cooling capability when the GPU is working like crazy (this could be a wrong assumption but I have to start somewhere).
Air flow out = Corsair fans at low RPM + rear fan = 110CFM + 59 = 169 CFM
That would result in positive pressure again.
If I notice my assumption is wrong and the Corsair is actually exhausting more air...then I can reduce the RPM on the rear fan (with a max setting) in order to keep positive pressure.

Overthinking it?...haha....thats my middle name.....but that was fun :-)

One more thing, I tried to understand the static pressure that fans produce a little better.
My conclusion is that airflow matters towards achieving positive pressure and not the pressure rating of the fans.
The pressure rating of the fan is more like PS on a car.
High pressure rated fans can push the air better through tight places which is why the Corsair water cooler radiator comes with 3 high pressure fans.
If you have a lot of things blocking your airflow then high pressure rated fans will help....but they will probably be louder as well.

The Be Quiet fans really are really quiet.
Especially at 1000 RPM.
they make a low frequency humming sound (almost like a buffeting sound if you listen closely) that I think is caused by the ribs on the fan blades. It seems these ribs cause turbulences and that seems to change the rather high pitched fan noise of all my other fans into a more pleasant for the ear deep and low frequency sound/noise.

Enough for now :-)

Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Fly happy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-16-2021 at 4:15pm
You have really put in a lot of time and effort into this LOL

Once you start running OCCT, you'll get more real world data to confirm your assumptions.
I don't think you'll have any cooling issues though. All those fans should be sufficient once they have been set up. 

I control all my fans with the CPU temperature, but I checked in FanXpert4 (part of the AISuite 3 software) and I can indeed control the fans using GPU temperature too. However, I have an ASUS GPU so I'm not sure if it will work with another brand. Maybe someone with another brand can check this?








  
Hans

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Donovan16 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Donovan16 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-16-2021 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:

I have an ASUS GPU so I'm not sure if it will work with another brand. Maybe someone with another brand can check this?

Interesting Hans!  I checked this on my system -- my AI Suite3 doesn't display the GPU option on the source menu running a Nvidia FE 3090.  I monitor temps for the GPU and CPU, but drive all fans based upon CPU package temp, except the 3 CPU Cooling fans on the AIO radiator, which I set in the iCUE software to run off the water pump temperatures.

So far I've never had the GPU temp rise above 53 C regardless of region. CPU temps vary a bit, but generally in the low 50s to low 60s C.  This is using P3Dv5.1 without HT.  

I rarely fly MSFS except for the occasional dilly-dally.  Seems like I once it got up to 72 C  on MSFS with HT On flying in the Los Angeles region, but temperatures never even got near the edge of the comfort zone either for the CPU or the GPU.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2021 at 3:53am
Thanks for checking.

Regarding the DVD/Blue Ray.
Since you can make brackets I assume you could make something and attach it inside the case with an opening facing the side instead of the front.

Or put it on the desk. Or get a real external drive with a ESATA input and use a SATA to ESATA rear tower port to a SATA  motherboard connection. 
Hans

W10 Pro, 10900K, ROG Maximus XII Hero, ASUS TUF GeForce RTX 3090 24GB Gaming OC, GSKILL F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR, Corsair H150i RGB PRO XT, Fractal Design 7XL, Corsair HX850
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2021 at 1:05pm
Hi Hans,

Yes that is possible.
I just think it is poor design from either the case people or the CPA cooler people that I cant have a blueray player in my case unless I do some modding.

I have 9 SSD trays that will hold 2 SSD each....that is room for 18SSDs!
But I cant put a blueray player i!

I am sorry, but......LOL

Is it that crazy what we are doing?

I think I will get an external player though.
Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-17-2021 at 1:06pm
Thanks Donovan....so I need to get an ASUS GPU if I want to play (with temps and airflows) as planned.

Thanks for the info!
Rob
PC1:i7 3770k 4.4Ghz, Asus Max V Formula,GTX780,8GB 2400@9-11-11-31

PC2: i7 4770K@4.2Ghz, ASUS Z87, 8GB DDR3 2400@9-11-11-31, GTX780

Building 10900k, ASUS Max Hero XII 4x8GB CL15-16-16-36, no GPU
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