SimForums.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General Discussion Forums > Hardware, Software, and Computer Technology
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Best CPU for Prepar3D V4.4
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Best CPU for Prepar3D V4.4

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Best CPU for Prepar3D V4.4
    Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:07pm
Which is currently the best CPU for Prepar3d V4.4?

In other words which one is the most likely to get the highest overclock on air after deliding and TIM replacement. I intend to upgrade now since I had to switch to W10 for WMR which I am very happy with but it turns out that my system the i7 4770K at 4.8ghz is the bottleneck when using Prepar3D V4.4 in SteamVR and not my GTX 980ti.

The main concern I have is will the best CPU for Prepar3D V4 today also be the best of todays CPU's for Prepar3D V5 in a couple of years. I'm building a system for 5 years. Might upgrade the video card half way through the five years but that will be it.

I am guessing that Prepar3D V5 will still be limited by single thread performance if it remains backwards compatible but it might end up being very multi threaded. So perhaps something with 8 cores over 6 cores might be better for V5 but more cores means less overclocking because of the heat of the extra cores?

Then there is the question of how much more oomph I will get form lets say an i7 9700K at say 5.2ghz over an i7 4770k at 4.8ghz?

Any suggestions much appreciated.Big smile
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-15-2019 at 9:43pm
You may want to back up...  Intel started using solder again between the CPU die and the lid so I would not consider delidding a modern CPU at all.
 
Folks are hitting 5+GHz easy today and there are business out there doing speed-binning resale work whereby they obtain CPUs go through and test them for ability and then sell them based on a confirmed speed.. I cant vouch for how accurate or how reliable such lotteries are.
 
Not sure where you are getting your idea about the video card..  a 1080ti is going to run far better than a 900 series in P3D, hands down but the bottom line is it all comes down to your choice of scenery and how high you want to try and run it.
 
Of course there will be advantages to running a more modern CPU at higher speed and especially if you add in 4200 memory running around C17-17-17 but you would be a bit daft to pair that with anything less than a 1080ti
 
Of course if you are embracing Windows 10 obtaining the hardware is not an issue but I would also move directly into NVMe PCIe x4 SSD as that alone will provide a huge advantage over standard SSD. Just remember in order to have full speed NVMe SSD your BIOS must be set to boot UEFI, Windows must be installed to a NVMe SSD and then all other NVMe SSD's in the system will also run full speed.
 
If you do not install and boot Windows from a NVMe SSD you will not see the full advantage of using the platform.
 
 
EDIT: Some NVMe require their own software be installed to work correctly such as Samsung and usually a separate driver as well which is not supplied by Windows. Windows usually supplies a generic driver just to get the ball rolling, sometimes you have to browse and add your NVMe device driver during the Windows install in order for the drive to be recognized/found.
 
 
 
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:49am
All sounds good. I have a budget of about US$3000. I'll use my current case and CPU heat sink but I doubt I'll get away with my current PSU. I am not interested in in buying a 2080ti or a new 1080ti because I just refuse to spend that kind of money on a single component. It's a bit like choosing between a new car and used car at this point. (ridiculous).

In WMR I used an app called FPSvr which shows the for CPU: % used, highest use core % used, CPU frametime: CPU temp, X out of Y MB of system memory used. For the GPU: % used. GPU frametime, GPU temp, X out of Y MB of VRAM used.

It also shows 2 graphs. One for the CPU and the other for the GPU. The graph has two horizontal lines. if the trace is below the lower horizontal line its green and indicates a frame rate of above 90fps. If it's above the lower line and below the upper line, the trace is orange and it indicates a frame rate of above 45fps. If its above the upper line the trace is red and indicates an fps below 45.

It seem that the trace for the GPU is Green and the trace for the CPU is red. Also the frame time for the CPU shows about 40ms and the frame time for the GPU shows about 0.4ms.

I am quite surprised by this but I know that tuning Prepar3D can be tricky. Sometimes moving a slider to the left reduces the FPS and visa versa.

I have discovered the a sustained frame rate above 30fps is achievable with Preapr3D V4.4 in VR with detail radius and Autogen draw distance set to low and Veg and building autogen set to sparse. 30fps with Vsyn is in fact smoother in VR that it is on a monitor. That would be 1/3 refresh rate. Makes sense to me since the VR screen is tiny in comparison.

With those setting I think immersion suffers. At my preferred setting in VR (which are modest compared to what they would be on a monitor) I get a fairly consistent 20fps. At cruse altitude I can live with that but on short final that just won't cut it.

The big question then is will a first generation Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU etc. deliver 30fps at the same setting as my system will deliver 20fps in the same scenario.

Or in other words will all the latest bells and whistles deliver a 50% performance increase over what I currently have?

I suspect not!
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 3:57pm
VR in P3D is not something I can't advise on. That is a area you will need to wade through on your own. I was under the impression Vsync is not used with VR but again, that is based on reading and not actual use.
 
I also can not estimate what a complete hardware platform upgrade will accomplish. Although I would step up the video adapter and have seen many reports of the 1080ti making a good difference coming from a 900 series, I can not say what level of change would occur with a VR system..  It really all comes down to that system itself, how well it works with the application, how high AA is run, what scenery/aircraft packages are in use and how far the render level is pushed.
 
As for if its worth 3 grand, I think that is all relative to the individual. If you looking to build a system designed to run for some years you have to look at cost as a investment toward obtaining and maintaining that goal over the estimated time period of use. I don't think the 900 card is going to cut it and until a new round of video adapter models are released no one really knows what will be best for value vs. price in P3D and you are correct that the 2080 series really isn't worth the crazy prices they are pushing that at now.
 
Now that they have pushed the pricing so high on video cards it is hard to say those prices are going to level off or come down. I would think with the last 10-20 series its a test to see what they can get away with and plan to keep the price points high. The day of the flagship 600-700 dollar video cards I think may be gone forever.
 
I would think the PSU would be fine if it was 8-850watts Haswell certified or ran Haswell without any issues originally.
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-16-2019 at 11:52pm
Thank you Nick. As as always your input is very much appreciated. That's good news on the PSU. It's been rock solid for Haswell build. If I recall correctly is 1000watts.

I'll get a CPU, and a motherboard appropriate for at least a couple of NVMe SSD's and DRAM in the 4200Mhz C17-17-17 ball park

Once I try it all out with the 980ti I decide on a GPU update.

I have found that tuning the sim to run at about 35fps in VR with frame rate set to unlimited and then turning on Vsync to get 30fps delivers very smooth performance compared to the raw and fluctuating around 35fps I get with vsync off. In terms of smoothness the comparison looks just the same as the comparison on a monitor where the refresh rate is set to 30hz. The only difference is that the 90hz headset will display 30fps with Vsync on when the frame rate is below 45fps. If its above 45fps the headset will display 45fps. Somewhat akin to a 1/2 or 1/3 refresh rate. I think the 30fps in the head set works even better than it does on a monitor with 30hz refresh rate.

I'll do my homework and pick a CPU first. I am guessing its going to be an i7 9700K
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-17-2019 at 1:54am
Your Haswell system served you well as it has for everyone who followed the advice and applied it. That was 2013. This is 2019 about 5.5 years later.
 
Place that into perspective going back to 2004. If you purchased top end hardware in 2004 based on the hardware curve of the time, you could easily have spent 3x that in late 2009/early 2010 and not caught the dragon. Back then, I replaced my own systems 3 times between 2004 and 2009.
 
What I posted in 2013 ran for 5 years solid as you have experienced but it could use a kick now. 
 
See that's the real point. You will never catch the dragon and like everyone else we will continue to buy scenery and hardware to try and keep up.
 
 
If you intend to build a system with the goal to run for 3-4 years on it you need to stop the BS about "I'm not paying for that" and you need to pay for it, because that is exactly what you want. What you said made no sense. You paid for that back in 2013. You enjoyed the result and then you upgraded to continue the trek. You paid for it. Nothing has changed.
 
What did you pay for your current Haswell system and the updates you added to it over time? Because a 900 series card was not around in 2013.
 
You have enjoyed the top end of the curve (reasonable top end) and you paid for it, do you think you are going to enjoy the top end of the curve and not pay to maintain that for some years?
 
Granted, back then I showed everyone how to get the most out of the hardware and as such you still had room to do some upgrade work over time.
 
You can nickel and dime yourself into frustration, or you can keep up with the Joneses. Which is the entire BS routine Flightsim has presented everyone for years.
 
5.5 years ago I outlined how to stay ahead of the game and it worked. But it has not changed. P3D has given you some advantages and taken them away on the other side. Since this is 5.5 years later you are going to haft'a eat it and start over.
 
But,...  you will never catch the dragon. And neither will anyone else until they STOP installing the next best great scenery/airport. If you want to play, you gotta pay.
 
Now here is how I see this and believe me, I am in the middle of it...
 
P3D introduces dynamic lighting
My local dealer introduces dynamic lighting in their airports or scenery
 
I will probably wait at least a year or so because first of all the ESP render engine is not designed to deliver that feature with performance in any way to begin with, and, there is no end in sight for it being replaced. I am sure you read the gossip from years past.. why would anyone think different than this?
 
v2 will be the rage
v3 might have a new render engine
v4!! this is the game changer!!
v5..  (I have some great property in south central Florida you should check out.. NO really!!)
 
I will let the folks with too much money and don't know what to with it buy the hardware and may also continue to complain as they run it.
 
OR they will do demo videos that shows off their 4-7000 dollar hardware investment and is planted to convince everyone they too can have everything shown.. with no stutters, blurs or crashes. 
 
"Gosh, I do not have any problems"   
 
If they have a real day job they don't have time for Flightsim unless they are being paid.
 
The dragon is fun to find, but don't chase it.
 
 
 
 
LOL  Beer
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
alainneedle1 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: September-04-2008
Location: United States
Points: 470
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alainneedle1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-17-2019 at 9:26pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

 
 
Now here is how I see this and believe me, I am in the middle of it...
 
P3D introduces dynamic lighting
My local dealer introduces dynamic lighting in their airports or scenery
 
I will wait at least a year or so because first of all the ESP render engine is not designed to deliver that feature with performance in any way to begin with, and, there is no end in sight for it being replaced. I am sure you read the gossip from years past.. why would anyone think different than this?
 
v2 will be the rage
v3 might have a new render engine
v4!! this is the game changer!!
v5..  (I have some great property in south central Florida you should check out.. NO really!!)
 
I will let the folks with too much money and don't know what to with it buy the hardware and may also continue to complain as they run it.
 
OR they will do demo videos that shows off their 4-7000 dollar hardware investment and is planted to convince everyone they too can have everything shown.. with no stutters, blurs or crashes. 
 
"Gosh, I do not have any problems"   
 
If they have a real day job they don't have time for Flightsim unless they are being PAID.
 
The dragon is fun to find, but don't chase it.
 
 
 
 
LOL  Beer
 
 
 
 
 

Right on Nick, how many flight simmers would have been able to get their REAL small plane pilot's license using all the money they spent on the latest generation of PC's hardware thinking that this time it would be the holey grail of all holy grail and run PD3 flawlessly (or close to it).....glitch in the Matrix "déjà vu"...

Buying the latest junk filled sceneries packed with $hit that mean nothing when you are learning to fly = chasing your tail (or the dragon's tail) all the time, but hey! I can brag about having the latest sceneries that is visually nice (with walking folks, moving trees) and bring my PC to his knees....I said the same thing as you did at least five years ago and we will say the same thing again in five years....wait you'r older you may....naaaa....you'll be around for a long time as only the good one leave first...LOL...Beer

 



Window 7 64-bit

Gigabyte UD-9

980x @4.50 24/7

PSU 1300W

2000MHz 7-7-7-20

Noctua NH-D14

Cricial SATA III C300 128GB

OCZ Z-Drive PCI-e 256GB for FSX

Zotac GTX 480 AMP
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2019 at 4:17pm
It is getting kind'a silly at this point.
 
 
I mean by now you would think the render engine would have undergone a serious change and I understand the desire to not spend money on expensive hardware but every time they come up with a new feature you read the same story over and over again and the only way to combat it is:
 
 
A. Upgrade the hardware.
B. Don't install the crazy scenery
 
 
But even with 'A' you still read how dynamic lighting and weather with AA along with city and building models crush performance of the mighty flagship products.
 
No one is talking about how advancements that other render engines display very efficiently can be run on 1/2 the hardware purchase. It just keeps piling higher and higher.
 
 
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2019 at 4:57pm
Now.. let me make this clear,..  
 
 
 I could understand the pile it higher and buy it again thing to a 'certain extent' if when I install the next latest greatest version of FS and when I launch the first flight I do not see practically the same thing I saw when I launched that same flight for the first time over 10+ years ago. If was looking at a new 'world' or a very 'changed' world I could buy into it.
 
But I don't. What am I 'repaying for'?  Am I repaying to have the same autogen and textures I installed in 2007 appear further away? Or am I am repaying to have the privilege of buying  the new improved airport X or region X that may use a new feature I WILL NEVER SEE in any satisfying level if I don't buy that airport or region X to find out I must be very privileged to discover I must buy more/expensive hardware so I can run it the way it should be run?
 
...and still have issues?  LOL
 
If I was getting the new feature applied to all the DEFAULT scenery and was seeing the scenery substantially change over time, then I can understand 'buy it again' and buy better hardware. At this point I am not buying the top shelf hardware to run FS (next) I am buying it to run all the other junk that doesn't even come with the new purchased sim.
 
 
..anyway, nothing I say will make a hill of beans difference so these last several posts are nothing but a waste of time.
 
 
If you are going to build a system with the thought of using it for Flightsim (next) for a period of years and you have any intension of installing the latest airport or region X scenery, I would not consider skipping part upgrades. Or at the very least plan on adding in that flagship video adapter within a few months at minimum.
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2019 at 5:22pm
Nick, thanks for taking the time to indulge my speculation. I've decided to skip the upgrade.
My current system is the system that keeps on giving and I would never have existed without your help. Thanks Smile I'll look again when intel release 10nm CPU's
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-18-2019 at 5:34pm
Don't get me wrong... You can purchase a new system and get a good change with that but it really comes down to is it worth it to you.
 
 
Some people simply wont live without airport X or scenery region Y to the point where they will crank settings down to have it, or, they will upgrade the entire system to discover they do get more but not what they expected.
 
I still run one system on a GTX780 but I also refuse to install anything that is going to remove my expectation for scenery complexity and scenery radius...  why would I do that when I paid for the sim 3 times over to finally get the filled and sharp distance render in line with what I expect and the level of air traffic at hubs and fields that should be there.
 
I could care less about grass, shiny hanger handles or if I can see the KFC sign next to the BP gas station with people waving at me from below.
 
Because of that, the old 4770k and 780 still crank along just fine although the system could use a new video card because like everyone else very heavy weather and even moderate AA can make things start to drag.
 
Of course I have paid (again) to get to that point. Big smile
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2019 at 3:13pm
No, I'm not taking offense. I agree with your post. I hardly ever buy addons I typically tune for 40fps with the hardest hitting addons and scenery I have in stormy weather. Then I set my screen to 30hz and turn on Vsync. That's it for all scenarios and for the most part I see smooth game play and no stutters. The last time I considered a new build about a year ago I passed that time too because I would struggle to stay with W7 and I came to the conclusion that the best hardware available at that time would not deliver a sufficient improvement over my current system to make it worth while.

Changing to VR shock thing up a bit. I had to go to W10 for WMR and although I have found that Vsync works and I can maintain my a smooth 30fps it looked like the CPU was the bottleneck and not the GPU. I was planning on upgrading with a used 1080ti but after discovering the above I figured a CPU upgrade was more appropriate.

Anyway, I'll hold off for another year. I found that CPU and GPU in my system are well matched for VR. I've just started again with a different baseline and I dial setting setting way back and looking for more appropriate VR setting. It's a bit of an adjustment going to VR.

I ran the Single thread test in Passmark Performance test 9.0 and the worlds highest test was only 13% higher than My CPU at 4.8ghz. That doesn't seem right to me. But I'll ask some other users with 1st a second gen CPU's at 5ghz+ to run the test and see what kind of scores they get compared to mine
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-21-2019 at 5:25pm
Just remember...  The Passmark test is not related to FSX/P3D.
 
The result may not reflect any comparison of P3D VR.. you may be and probably are looking at apples to oranges
 
In the past we could use 3DMark06 because all the tests were apples to apples with FSX.
 
The problem today is we have a GMO apple instead of an organic apple and by now (after 5 years) we should have had a organic orange.
 
The only way a real apples to apples benchmark can deliver worthwhile result today is if the current FS version developer made a benchmark which establishes a baseline setup of all features with the latest release, then compares that to a duplicate round run on hardware-X.
 
 
I have known for some time the ultimate goal was to go to and end up in VR. 
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-25-2019 at 10:43am
Just out of curiosity I tried to correlate Frame Rate, Single core Ghz and the Single core performance test from Passmark. First I had to come up with a short scenario (10mins) that maxed out core zero and left plenty of overhead on the other cores and the GPU. recorded that scenario and then on my own system played it back at 3.9ghz and then 4.8ghz

4.8ghz is 23% higher than 3.9ghz

At 4.8ghz the average frame rate for the scenario was 45 and for 3.9ghz it was 38

45fps is 18.4% higher than 38

The PassMark single core test score at 4.8ghz was 2890 and at 3.9ghz it was 2313

2890 is 24.9% higher than 2313

its definitely not linear. The CPU speed and the Passmark score are close but FPS did not increase as much  as either of those.

I would be curious to see what the likes of an i9 9900k at 5.2ghz would get for single core performance in Passmark. I'll put a post on overclockers.net to see if I can get any feedback on passmark single core scores for 8 and 9 series CPU's

Roughly, i'll suppose if I wanted to get that 45fps to 60fps that would be a 33% increase. So a Single core passmark score in well in excess of 3843

I know there is more at play here but I'm just spitballing my way to my next build. I'll guess that will be around a year from now.


i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-26-2019 at 12:26am
The way you are thinking and approaching your evaluation is somewhat correct. The problem is there is no relationship between Passmark benchmarks and FS_whatever.
 
The only way you could even begin to make a correlation between the PM test results and FS_whatever is to have a control group who are all on the same version of FS_whatever and who all only run default or vanilla install of the application, as well as, run a defined script of a flight in a time slice obtaining the high/low/average frame rate BUT here is the kicker, I don't care if there are 20FPS or 90FPS, the element you can not quantify with a number is how visually SMOOTH the test ran.
 
 
The  same control group has the same or very similar hardware, the same AA and resolution.. then they also run the same version of the Passmark test and post results.
 
With that information you MAY be able to pull a consistent reference to the Passmark score because you have established a pseudo relationship between the 2.
 
Without that, you are sort of spitting into the wind.
 
 
 
I will save you a lot of time..   YES you will definitely see a difference with the latest MB/CPU/DRAM as long as you get the right DDR4 and even without that you will see a difference.
 
 
That has not been the question here..  the question is why you wont upgrade the video card, why are you fighting that? You know for a fact that you must match the video card to the CPU ability or a bottleneck will occur, that has not changed.
 
 
You can upgrade the video card on your current system as that system allows full PCIe3. That purchase would not go to waste, it will improve your current setup (how much I can't tell you) and it can be used in a future build.
 
But there is also the fact that because of timelines we are moving past the 1080ti today and what they may come out with in the next year, who knows.
 
Some people swear by the 2080ti..   If paid for a top end car, I might brag about it to justify my decision because I cant deal with the fact that I spent so much money for (tHis?) LOL
 
This whole thing about IS IT WORTH IT is somewhat silly if you refuse to upgrade the video card.
 
 
That's the bottom line
 
If you are satisfied with your current setup then don't mess with it. It is 5.5 years old. That's pretty amazing when you consider most folks, including myself, replaced their entire computer system for running FS_whatever 3 times from 2004 to 2010.
 
You are not going to get around the cost to run the application 2-4-5 years from now.
 
 
 
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2019 at 8:34am
Anyway got to the end of the upgrade quest.
I bought a used 1080ti
It cost me CAD$700 with 2 years left on warranty.
Its listed on Newegg.ca for CAD$1950 so $2050 with tax
https://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAFA48G65338&Description=1080ti&cm_re=1080ti-_-9SIAFA48G65338-_-Product
So almost 1/3 of the new price plus I have my 980ti on a local buy and sell sit for $300.
Hasn't sold yet but I am getting plenty of interest.
So once that's gone, and it owes me nothing, I'll be CAD$400 into a 1080ti with 2 years of warranty left.Big smile

The card checks out on benchmarks. I haven't had to much time to play with it but it definitely delivers on my expectations.

With the 980ti I couldn't get the required FPS on approach with my minimal acceptable setting in VR.

I made this comparison benchmark:

You can really see the difference once the airport is fully loaded about halfway through.
Not only do I get a solid smooth 45fps but there is a bucket on overhead to increase sliders.Big smile

My system will live on for at lest 1 more year! LOLLOLLOL
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2019 at 5:18pm
I know its an expense but you spent far less than building an entirely new system AND if you had built the new system you needed the video card regardless.
 
When we did this Haswell build nearly 6 years ago the combination of the true PCIe-3, the major jump in performance to the processor base itself, with a decent stable clock (and very important) the right DDR3 low latency memory keeping those communication rates lighting fast..  put it all together and it still lives today.
 
 
Granted its reached its EOL now with a 1080ti and high end PCIe SSD (added to it over time) but how many folks over the years bought a single system to run FS-ANYTHING over a 7 year period in the past?  That's like going from 2007 to 2014 without buying a new computer in that time.
 
 
Its too bad the bitcoin miners drove up the price of the cards, ....  although I believe that story about as much as I believe P3D will have a new render engine in the next 2 years. I think it was more on the lines of creative price fixing.
 
 
 EDIT: Your video link doesn't work
 
 
 
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2019 at 9:40pm
The video should work now.

Yes it is a great system Looking at what simmers are getting out of 8 and 9 series CPU's it just not enough more for me to make it worth. Although i7 8086K is appealing. I have read post on AVSIM of user getting 5.3ghz in all six cores.

As always Nick I do appreciate your expert input. I and I am sure a whoie bunch of other simmers wouldn't have the system s we have if it where not for you very generously sharing your expertise.  Big smile
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-05-2019 at 10:18pm
Absolutely..   get 5.3 on all 6, but also make sure you have the motherboard and the memory modules to run <40ns @ DDR4 4100+ and then pair it up with the 2080 which gives you the same filtering ability as 2 1080ti's in SLi but without the headaches and nonsense SLi present,  and not a single frame more.... and lets not forget the NVMe SSD booted off UEFI Windows 10
 
CHHHHHHHHAAaaaa   CHHHING!~ 
 
...or just do what you did and let everyone else ride the wave$ LOL
 
 
Back to Top
funknnasty View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: April-17-2017
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-19-2019 at 8:56pm
...or just do what you did and let everyone else ride the wave$ LOL
 
[/QUOTE]

Surfs up, Nick ... ;-)

Candidate for the Smithsonian, no?



Images captured just minutes ago ...sfo to lax. On Win7.

Nick ...voltages dialed in and memory as tight as I can get them ....she'll be well taken care of I can assure you. :-)
....cpu is the 8086, cooled by H100 V2
Back to Top
Avidean View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: February-04-2012
Points: 422
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Avidean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-20-2019 at 2:31pm
Yeah, If I was going to take the plunge now it would be 8086
i7 4770k, SABERTOOTH Z87, GTX 980ti, G-SKILL TRIDENT 2400MHZ 9-11-11-31
Back to Top
AnkH View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: July-05-2013
Points: 88
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2019 at 2:45am
5.3GHz with 1.240V? This is seriously impressive. Also in combination with 4133MHz CL17 RAM. Being lucky in the silicone lottery is always nice... 
--------------------------------
Chris
Back to Top
funknnasty View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: April-17-2017
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2019 at 9:44am
Originally posted by AnkH AnkH wrote:

5.3GHz with 1.240V? This is seriously impressive. Also in combination with 4133MHz CL17 RAM. Being lucky in the silicone lottery is always nice... 


Yeah, very fortunate, I am with this build.

Everything, up until the very last component, I've stuffed into the case has been golden.

The last component -pushing my luck, was the 4400 C18 GSkill kit I tried a couple of weeks ago. That was a complete failure. A complete no go using my 8600K and 8086. The best I could do with that kit -same result with both cpu's, was 4300 c18 or 19 at default cpu speeds. With overclock and using "Raj's 4133" timings, the best I could do was no better than 3700.

note: cpu needs 1.39V at 5.3 but will droop to 1.37 using LLC 6 (load line calibration) with P3D v4.4  ....I don't use any AVX offset.

-Cheers
Back to Top
AnkH View Drop Down
Intermediate Group
Intermediate Group


Joined: July-05-2013
Points: 88
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnkH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2019 at 9:58am
Ah, this sounds more reasonable. I was looking on the VCCIO in above screenshot ;-)
--------------------------------
Chris
Back to Top
funknnasty View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: April-17-2017
Points: 19
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote funknnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2019 at 10:30am
Originally posted by AnkH AnkH wrote:

Ah, this sounds more reasonable. I was looking on the VCCIO in above screenshot ;-)


Yeah, and just in case your more puter savy than me .....you might be thinking; 'I don't see any droop in that Hwinfo graphic'. And you'd be right .... The 1.39 is more of a LLC voltage overshoot than the 1.376 is a droop.

I could use the LLC 5 to get droop, but I prefer the over shoot with P3D  .... P3D just seems finicky to me about voltages ...I came to believe that a little overshoot is better than being a little short. That AVX P3D uses is sneaky ....
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-21-2019 at 8:29pm
 
Originally posted by funknnasty funknnasty wrote:

...or just do what you did and let everyone else ride the wave$ LOL
 
 
Surfs up, Nick ... ;-)
 
Candidate for the Smithsonian, no?
 
 
 
Naa,,... not at all. You simply got it right.
 
Flightsim is a very miniscule part of the performance computer market.
 
What you have is what I have outlined for years. You built it right regardless of if it was partially dumb luck or circumstance to achieve it or not, you understood what you were looking for.
 
You bought the right memory modules and motherboard and regardless of how you obtained the final result, it is impressive as long as it is 24/7 stable for years.
 
If you are still on it 4 years from now even if you may change the video card, then yes.. now its heading toward Smithsonian LOL
 
 
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

Yeah, If I was going to take the plunge now it would be 8086
 
 
Which is the meat and potatoes of the subject. You were/are not willing to drop a lot of money because the fact of the matter is, what you run right now and what you need to run it you have it all there. The addition of the graphics card smoothed it back into place, for now.
 
 
But remember what you originally spent to get that result and have it serve you for nearly 6 years to date.
 
In Funky's case, that hardware was not cheap by any means, just as yours wasn't cheap going back 5 or so years... but he researched and found the right combination that follows what I have said for nearly 2 decades about memory speed/timing and latency that the majority of the FS community laugh at because they know it all.
 
 
Granted, Funky lucked out with a Asus Bios programmers preset and did not have to spend money on trial and error components as well as time on testing and retesting for stability.
 
That would be similar to what I did in June 2013 where I did spend the money and the time to work it all out with the components and posted here how to duplicate it.
 
 
Funky would be certifiably nuts if he dumped the system he has for another, even a year or more out from now and based on current design and physics limitations, he wont do better on the memory latency without extreme cooling and even then the result would be bragging rights alone.
 
 
What Funky is posting is right out of my personal hardware playbook that has been posted here for years. Unfortunately, the key to it is you must be willing to throw down the money on the motherboard/processor and the memory product (AT THE RIGHT TIME) in which all in concert return the latency result he displays. Just like the DDR3 9-11-11-31 @ 2400 will produce the latency result across the board with the Haswell CPU speed of above 4.3GHz.
 
Funkys motherboard isn't available through retail channels anymore. I'm not sure if the memory product he uses is still available. That's called AT THE RIGHT TIME.
 
 
Those who roll with that methodology, win for the long run... but it comes with a high initial cost.
 
 
 
 
About Vcore and current... Now, this may not work with current CPUs but it sure as heck worked with Haswell...
 
The original trick with Haswell was to run a constant Vcore and no droop. We would use a MANUAL constant set CPU Voltage, LEVEL 8 for CPU Load Line Calibration, shut down SpeedStep but leave Turbo Mode Enabled. We would set the CPU multipliers so every core was the same as well as set the defined CPU cache multiplier so those two were set equal to each other. We would also run: CPU POWER PHASE CONTROL - OPTIMISED (predefined Asus setting)
 
From there, we used the Haswell certified PSU for C-STATES in C3 to control the CPU CURRENT/WATT load
 
CPU C STATES: ENABLED   - This is set to AUTO by default, change it to ENABLED and under CPU C STATES the following will appear, change as outlined:
ENHANCED C1: DISABLED
CPU C3 REPORT: ENABLED
CPU C6 REPORT: DISABLED
C6 LATENCY: SHORT
CPU C7 REPORT: DISABLED
C7 LATENCY: LONG
PACKAGE C3 STATE REPORT: C3
 
 
The result was the current increased/decreased as the load on the CPU increased/decreased. This is similar to speedstep but instead of letting Intel control the voltage variable, we control it and current draw (watts)
 
 
So I can have a 4770K running 4.75-4.8GHz @ 1.44v in the BIOS and the watt readings are say 18-25watts if there is no load, it will increase as the load increases. So if I am surfing and hitting videos or other items, wattage can go up to say 40-60watts and the voltage remains nearly the same.
 
If I firewall it, the current can jump and the output read 150-190watts perhaps more, voltage slightly goes up but stays within a safe range.
 
All of my fans are controlled via Asus fan software and are set to trigger based on CPU temp alone (nothing else) with a nice curve that takes them from very low speed to 100% if the CPU hits 75c (in Asus fan software its 65c because their crap fan/CPU temp software has been -10c off since the beginning of time) LOL
 
 
We can have 1 million volts with .00005 AMPS
 
Or we can have 1 millions AMPS at .00005 Volts
 
The 2nd is for more dangerous than the 1st under the right circumstances.
 
So what my BIOS outline for the Z87 Sabertooth and Haswell defined was a stable uninterrupted voltage with variable current based on load. Its like SpeedStep in reverse but SpeedStep sucks and I also outlined that the Windows power profile be set to HIGH PERFORMANCE and then confirm in the advanced properties of the power profile that the CPU power settings were 100% at idle and 100% under a load. The C-State setup on the PSU took it from there.
 
 
 
Just examples...
 
Idle
 
 
A bit higher than normal because my air cooler needs to be cleaned.
 
 
 
With grindstone AVX load
 
 
 
 
 
Yes the temps are not good on the AVX load readout. I usually run 25c-28c idle and about 88-90c AVX test load. That is a 100% grindstone AVX CPU load. I need to clean my HSF and the video card shotgun after 2 years of being lazy...
 
HOWEVER there is no Flightsim software that hits AVX, Adobe After Effects an other such software do,... but you get the idea. Flightsim be it Box/SE or P3D will never run my CPU that hard.
 
 
The point of this is to show the watt change as the load increases and without SpeedStep, how both the voltage and the current are controlled
 
 
 
 
That's right!  its 4.75GHz stable for nearly 24/7 @ 6 years on .736v idle voltage with a MANUAL setting of 1.44v in the BIOS,.. and that fluctuates WITH current That is because the current is being regulated between low load and high load using C3 C-State.
 
The CPU SPEED never changes regardless of being idle or firewalled. NO SPEEDSTEP
 
I run 4.75GHz surfing the net and 4.75 in FS_whatever
 
Its always 4.75GHz (or close enough)
 
It works with DDR3 Haswell, I cant say it works with newer DDR4 systems
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Back to Top
mobsky View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: April-09-2012
Location: Canada
Points: 371
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobsky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-28-2019 at 9:51am

Nick Im still using this pc, 2600k 4.8gh 24/7 with the noctua cooler and this beast is still going, nvidia stopped supporting the gtx580 last april, not that it matters for FSX. I remember asking you if it was ok to get the 980 back then and said I won't get the full advantage of it because of my cpu. I'm all in for a new build now, my only problem is windows 10. I actually have a 4770k but it's hard to find the motherboard and memory I want and are very expensive to order if you do. I think going with the latest is the best choice now and is definitely worth it.

2600K@4.8Ghz, 8GB 7-8-8-24-1, EVGA GTX580SC, 480GB SSD for FSX
Back to Top
NickN View Drop Down
Certified Professional
Certified Professional


Joined: November-21-2007
Points: 17598
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-02-2019 at 4:32pm
If you are going to spend money I would NOT start with a 4770K and move to the coffee lake or higher slugs.
 
As for what to buy I cant direct that other than make sure the video card is Nvidia, NEVER AMD, and at least a 1080ti.
Back to Top
GL_64 View Drop Down
New Member
New Member


Joined: March-04-2018
Points: 14
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GL_64 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April-15-2019 at 4:39am
Whatever you buy, will be superceded quite quickly.

I bought a i7 7700k and GTX 1080, last Easter, 2 months (I think) before the 8700k came out ! At least I had the best for a while.

So, buy the best you can afford, and enjoy it.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.164 seconds.