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Seeking advice regarding Z490 build

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Fly happy View Drop Down
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    Posted: July-29-2020 at 12:42pm
I'm planning a build on an Asus ROG Maximus XII Hero (Wifi) for flight simulation and gaming.

Thinking I would go for the 10900K and then, once available, an RTX 3080 or 3080Ti.
Not really stressed about finishing the build right now so I can wait for the GPU, take my time and build it, test, overclock, test, watch the grass grow, and so on in the meantime. Plus, I will need a new monitor too, and pick a PSU (Looking at Corsair RM850x for now) and drives since the new PC will be in another room than the Sandy-Bridge E rig I have now, which I will keep for other stuff. So lots to think about. I think I won't push higher than an all core clock of 5 GHz, so not really going to break any records. I will probably be getting the Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT cooler for the CPU. 

But, I'm kinda stuck on choosing the memory. So I've read that it's more important now than in the passed to look at the memory QVL of the board so I have been looking there and on the GSKILL RAM Configurator for the board to have some more options since the motherboard QVL is kinda limited.

So I'm looking at 32 GB in total and there are 2x16GB and 4x8GB kits. There seems to be more choices when looking at 4x8GB kits though, so maybe that is the way to go? What do you think? 

So here are some of the kits I have found on either the motherboard memory QVL or over at GSKILL or both:

F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR (4x8GB, 1.5v)

F4-4000C17Q-32GTZR (4x8GB, 1.35V)
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232675

F4-4000C19D-32GTZR (2x16GB, 1.35V)
F4-3800C14Q-32GTZN (4x8GB, 1.5V)

F4-3600C14Q-32GTRSB (4x8GB, 1.45V)

F4-3600C16D-32GTZR (2x16GB, 1.35V)

F4-3200C14Q-32GFX (4x8GB, 1.35V)

F4-3200C14D-32GTZ (2x16GB, 1.35V)

I don't know if 4000 CL15 or 3800 CL14 would be pushing my luck...and they run at 1.5V. Ermm
The other kits run between 1.45V and 1.35V. Would 1.5V be too much in the long run?
The 3600 CL14 is rather interesting as well. I will have to say that the 2x16GB kits don't really impress me much, when compared to the potential performance of 4x8GB kits here. The 2x16GB 3200 CL14 is on par with the 4x8GB kit though.

Appreciate your comments.
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2020 at 7:18am
You will have to make that call. I understand the need for 1.5v on high speed low latency memory with 32GB but I can not say if there is long term issues with it. If you want 32GB and you want the highest performance, you have to deal what it takes. 

If that's the case, I always go the best performance option which is 


or this




If you are not willing to go there then its either...






and don't think for a minute those last 2 might not need 1.40-1.45 especially for a CPU clock. We are talking 32GB here.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2020 at 8:08am
Okay, thanks Nick. Although I like having the best performance I can get, I also value longevity and stability. With that being said I think this is gonna be a tough one. I'll look around to see what's available here. Newegg has alot more to offer for you guys across the pond.
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2020 at 8:36am
Stable will be about your clock and how many cores you are looking to bang at full speed. These Intel CPUs don't clock all the cores and people think they are getting 5-5.3Ghz when the reality is they are only getting 1 or 2 cores doing that unless it is a fully manual clock that overrides the Intel motherboard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-30-2020 at 9:41am
Yeah, that's why I am aiming for a manual all core 5 GHz. Not sure yet if hyperthreading is needed. I guess it depends on the game and I guess I will have to test if it makes a difference but having two or more profiles to test for stability can get tedious so I will probably turn HT off for starters. And I mean ten cores at 5 GHz should be enough for most games I assume. If I can get 5 GHz, I'll lock it. It's been 7-8 years now since my last build and I will probably hang on to this new build for at least five years or more. I also play Euro Truck Simulator 2 and first person shooters in addition to flight sim.
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-31-2020 at 1:12am
HT is absolutely not needed for any MS Flight simulator version of the past or P3D (any version)

Only the ignorant who turn it on because of other issues and think it has made a difference, and then spin the affinity mask wheel of fortune.. believe it is. Then there is the expert 'stuttering Steve' at AV** who cant get his story strait.

I can not tell you what the next FS game will work with.

If HT is something of value to the game, the clock to a 'all core' party will be significantly restricted without serious cooling. Which might be OK IF AND ONLY IF it is designed to work like it does with professional EE and audio/video solutions. 

Something tells me it wont be needed. HT makes its marks in professional engineering and A/V software. I am not a gamer, so if you know of games that use HT correctly and seriously like it does with other such software (and believe me.. it works but most folks have never seen it in action on professional software like that) then you are ahead of the curve on that from me....   but, if there are none.. I would say HT will probably be a smelly marketing crock with the new MSFS game too.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-31-2020 at 2:55am
Thanks for your input. No, I'm not ahead of the curve, I was just thinking that with the new rig I will be able to play more modern games and maybe they have been developed more for HT so the question popped up in my mind. I don't do professional or video editing stuff. Just flight simulation and games. 
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July-31-2020 at 1:12pm
I can tell you without question when running HT on professional A/V encode software, the time to process and render a large production file today goes from (in example only) 30-45 minutes with HT off, down to 15-18 with HT on.

That is a significant difference and one the user can easily see the value in running a lower clock due to temperature with HT enabled. 

Someone would have to show me visually on the screen without silly graphs and statistics how HT is significantly increasing the performance of any current iteration of FSX or P3D before I would give up physical core clock speed for virtual threads. In fact in many cases it creates more stutter issues that must be tuned out using a setting that does not exist by default in the config files.


What MSFS 2020 will do with it remains to be seen however being a game I don't see average frame rate increasing 25-50-100% or that would be all over the internet as major gamer news. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-01-2020 at 10:13am
I've been looking around and it seems I can get most of the kits discussed. But this 'issue' or question comes back to mind and that is...is 2x16GB more difficult to run than 4x8GB for the CPU/Motherboard with everything else being the same? And it goes back to the recommendations/QVL of both Gskill and Asus because the performance numbers of those 4x8GB kits can not be found in 2x16GB kits. So from that, I have begun to draw conclusions (conclusions that may be false) that 2x16GB kits are harder to run at the same speed and latency than 4x8GB kits. I mean, it's easy to come to that conclusion with the lists provided, unless there is some kind of delibarate choice being made not to develop/produce 2x16GB kits with the same performance as 4x8GB kits. But this whole thing pushes me towards 4x8GB kits even though it is not needed for dual channel, and with a drawback that with four sticks, there are two more sticks there can be issues with.

Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-02-2020 at 5:12pm
Your assumption is wrong. The issue from the manufacture is getting a 16GB (instead of 8) quality high speed/low latency stick to run stable with a window.

It's all a give and take and this is where you run into the voltage deal. You want the memory amount and the speed but you don't want to run 4 slots.., you have to deal with it. 

It's a combination of the amount of memory and the number of slots, however, the number of slots populated takes the prize for stable overclocking with less stress. THINK of it this way.. they are not listing memory modules for an overclockers system, that voids secret squirrel fine print warranties. They are listing QVL for a stock system knowing their auto BIOS clocking will work.

So if you can put 2 16GB high speed/low latency sticks in a 4 slot board the board will clock the CPU with less headaches over 4. You have to deal with the cost and the voltage if that is what you want with a full-on manual clock.

There is no getting around it in specs.

Here is how I look at it..  unless you are really good at overclocking, you are not going to get above 5GHz stable and secure anyway, so take the route that nets the best memory performance support, eat the voltage and enjoy the system.

If that isn't something that appeals, then go for the lower voltage options but be very aware in a full-on clock, you may very well not be running 1.35 with those either.


Mine are rated for 1.35 and I must run them @ 1.45 24/7 on a 8 cylinder 24/7 5.2GHz overclock. I also manually tuned the secondary/tertiary timings too. No problems here. Tower is properly ventilated and the ambient room environment is 100% controlled @ 78F (or lower) x 35-50% humidity max - 24/7 year round.

The environment a tower is designed to run and lives in under conditions is something many do not think about. The room could be great but if the tower is shoved under a desk, or, if the outside wall the tower is close to gets hit by the sun and varies conditions... and,, the user has not thought about the heat trapped..  it changes the entire dynamic for component longevity. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 12:32am
To rephrase what I outlined above..

The more memory per slot and the lower the timing with higher speed, the higher the voltage

The more slots populated and the lower the timing with higher speed, the higher the voltage

The more slots populated, the lower the memory timing and the higher the CPU clock, the more CPU and supporting voltage required.


We are are getting into 32GB, something we never had to consider in the past for a typical system. With that comes all the caveats in droves no matter how many sticks.

Therefore and in my opinion, keep the clock reasonable. Go for the communication performance and don't worry about the number of slots or the voltage. If you are concerned about that then give up the quest for the high end memory communication perf and go with what you are comfortable with.


32GB and over throws everything under the bus (no pun intended) for a performance clocked system. 

Unless the memory manufacture comes across a bin run of chips that will run low voltage at max perf (and believe me, they will get top dollar for the product) then you have to give and take based on what you are comfortable doing.



Those sticks are probably going to get fairly warm no matter what you choose if its above 3200 and low latency so make sure the tower is properly designed for ventilation, is not shoved in a closed corner or under a desk where it can't breathe or circulate fresh air and the room it is in doesn't see temps in the 80F+ range... it should be fine.     should be  Big smile

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 9:35am
Thanks Nick. I have been looking around again, leaving the QVL's so to speak, to scan the market for 2x16GB kits and the conclusion is that they can't seem to compete with the performance of 4x8GB kits. Usually there is atleast a difference of CL2 for the same frequency. 

What surprises me though, is that not a single 2x16GB kit found during my search runs at 1.5V. I don't know if that makes them too hot or what, but that is my observation. Anyways, I will probably throw in the towel here for the search for 2x16GB kits and get either the 4x8GB 4000CL15 or the 4x8GB 3800CL14 and see where it gets me. And I will not focus blindly at a CPU clock of 5 GHz. I mean, if I can run the memory as specified, I will accept a lower CPU clock if needed.

In terms of ventilation I will build the new pc almost the same as the Sandy-Bridge E with the exception of the case, because the Corsair 900D is not available anymore. And I think the 900D was unneccesarily big and expensive, but it was nice to work with because of the space.

I was looking at large cases with a side fan mounting position but didn't find any. 
So I am looking at the Corsair 750D, since it is big enough for the H150 and has an acrylic side panel I can cut a hole in, as I did with the 900D, and mount a 200 mm side fan there. 


Exhaust fans would be 3x120 in the top from the H150 cooler and one 140 mm in the rear of the case. Intake fans: 2x140 in the front and the 200 mm side fan I mentioned. And possibly a 120 mm fan behind the CPU if it fits. Ambient temperature here isn't really a problem. Infact, I have the heating system running for 9-10 months per year, sometimes more. This july has been extremely cold and I had the heating on for a couple of days only last week. 
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 1:20pm
I understand why the question on voltage with the difference seen between the 2 options. You are thinking why are the 4 stick top ends running 1.45-1.5 and there are no 2 stick options in that range and coming to the conclusion that the higher memory amount per stick was difficult to keep stable at higher speed. logical

But you also noticed the voltage difference between the two and therein lies the answer along with memory/motherboard manufactures who know folks who are going to run to the 2 stick option are going to either want a later 64GB option, or, a high CPU clock. In either of those cases they don't want to push the envelope to the edge on 2 modules.

I would need to get my hands on a set, but I would like to bet with the right chip selection those 16GB modules could run higher speed/lower latency on a higher voltage, just like the 4 stick counterparts, but then that same voltage is being applied to 2 enclosed modules.. 

These manufactures also know most folks are not the sharpest tacks in the box and to avoid returns and complaints they would opt to go the safe route till they rethink their approach. Remember, this 32GB+ thing in clockers/gaming has not been a norm, is just coming around to main stream today, the memory manufactures have a stock to get rid of on top of redesign of product down the road for that purpose.  


A large tower box isn't a bad thing I still use the Cooler Master HAF 932 from years ago. As outlined in the Haswell clocking guide the fans were all replaced with low noise / high volume options I listed there and still work great today. I believe the H150i is 360mm and there are the lines that take a little room on top of that so for a top/inside radiator install you will need a tower with some room up there. 


I forgot you are in Sweden LOL I didn't realize you would need heat in July so keeping the tower in 78F or under doesn't appear to be an issue. Just make sure no heat vents are close to the tower. Big smile We hit mid to high 90's down here closer to Cuba with a 'feels like' 105 on some days.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 1:40pm
Yeah I was kinda scratching my head the last couple of days, looking for those high performance 2x16GB kits @ 1.5V but found none LOL

Anyways, "close to Cuba" sounds nice. I had a friend in Miami in the early 2000's who I visited a couple of times. Sadly he passed away in 2003 and since then I haven't been in those neck of the woods. I was always there during the winter (although it felt like summer to me LOL) and we attended Daytona Bike Week in 2001. He was also a biker like me and we met in the early days of internet on those mailing lists that existed back then. 
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 1:52pm
Yea, you haft'a look at it from the memory/motherboard manufacture point of view. They are supplying a customer 2 sticks @ 16GB and if the customer were to opt to add 2 more right away or down the road, then there is no way in hell those sticks are going to run the top-end speed/latency at a reasonable voltage so they sell those tamed back

However, like I said I would like to bet they could be run past their spec but that would be someone who wants to play and doesn't expect to get a refund if they won't. I would look at the chips on the sticks, something most would never ever think of doing, before making the decision to try it. Knowing the bin-run of chips makes a huge difference with success with something like that.

Biker eh?   I had to retire mine some years back. You should have gone to Sturgis, SD! Best music and cleanest jails in the Midwest! LOL



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 2:34pm
Hans,
I was in the same predicament as you. My current case is old Antec 193 with a 200 mm side fan. It has been solid, reliable, and cool ever since I built this system in 2013. 


The reason it shows out of stock is because it isn't made anymore and I couldn't find any other cases with a big side fan that I liked. It seems that people are more interested in light shows than good cooling these days. I would have reused the Antec P193 but it doesn't have enough room on top for a 360 mm radiator.

I instead settled on this Fractal Design 7 XL case which is a new model, has plenty of room for radiators, and can be purchased with metal side panels to allow installation of a large side fan if desired. I have an EVGA hybrid cooled 1080ti and there is room to mount its radiator on the back side.


I can easily install the 200 mm fan from my Antec P193 into the 7 XL if I need to. The extra bonus for you is that Fractal Design is based in Sweden.

Thought you might be interested,
Ted 
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Yea I have noticed the same thing. They have moved away from nice large side fan ports where a large fan moves a lot of air and makes little noise to these disco towers. I cut the wires to the LEDs on any fans that might come like that if the tower wont allow them to be turned off.

Unfortunately it seems memory for the most part comes with those silly lights today as does the Corsair AIO liquid systems. I don't mind the Corsair software to control the PSU (its needed to switch it to single rail anyway) and the AIO waterblock head lighting as it works well but I have found the Asus motherboard software as well as the memory manufacture's software is terrible for efficient design and hits the CPU far too hard in some cases. I just uninstalled all that junk and let the memory sticks run their default light show. 



There is a cheapo tower option but I honestly can't say or vouch for how well made, or, how much it would take to get it up to speed with better fans. The Rosewill Thor V2

It has a similar look to the HAF 932 and X series and at 130 plus shipping it may not be a bad project box to work with. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053  I did not dig into the specs at the Rosewill site so I cant say if it would support a 360mm radiator but from the look of it I would think it would. 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 4:36pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Yea, you haft'a look at it from the memory/motherboard manufacture point of view. They are supplying a customer 2 sticks @ 16GB and if the customer were to opt to add 2 more right away or down the road, then there is no way in hell those sticks are going to run the top-end speed/latency at a reasonable voltage so they sell those tamed back

However, like I said I would like to bet they could be run past their spec but that would be someone who wants to play and doesn't expect to get a refund if they won't. I would look at the chips on the sticks, something most would never ever think of doing, before making the decision to try it. Knowing the bin-run of chips makes a huge difference with success with something like that.

Biker eh?   I had to retire mine some years back. You should have gone to Sturgis, SD! Best music and cleanest jails in the Midwest! LOL

Heh, I remember a game a long time ago where you rode a bike and I think the end goal was to reach Sturgis. And that's probably as close to Sturgis I will get LOL 
Oh here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVh9MlfzkFY

I still have my Suzuki RF900R which I bought new in 1998, and my friend had one also and that was why we both were on that mailing list back in the day.

Interesting thoughts about playing with 2x16GB kits. It did cross my mind trying to clock a 1.35V 2x16GB kit but I'm not sure if I ever would reach the performance of that 4x8GB 4000 CL15 kit I'm thinking about, or if the sticks are even nearly binned as high as those in the 4000 CL15 kit. And as you say, the heat would be distributed on two sticks instead of four so I don't know. 

But I think a 2x16GB kit as this one would be a candidate for a clocking attempt:

F4-3200C14D-32GTZ (2x16GB, 1.35V)
https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-32gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232206 

Or maybe this:
F4-3600C16D-32GTZR (2x16GB, 1.35V)
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by Ted striker Ted striker wrote:

Hans,
I was in the same predicament as you. My current case is old Antec 193 with a 200 mm side fan. It has been solid, reliable, and cool ever since I built this system in 2013. 


The reason it shows out of stock is because it isn't made anymore and I couldn't find any other cases with a big side fan that I liked. It seems that people are more interested in light shows than good cooling these days. I would have reused the Antec P193 but it doesn't have enough room on top for a 360 mm radiator.

I instead settled on this Fractal Design 7 XL case which is a new model, has plenty of room for radiators, and can be purchased with metal side panels to allow installation of a large side fan if desired. I have an EVGA hybrid cooled 1080ti and there is room to mount its radiator on the back side.


I can easily install the 200 mm fan from my Antec P193 into the 7 XL if I need to. The extra bonus for you is that Fractal Design is based in Sweden.

Thought you might be interested,
Ted 


Thanks Ted, that case looks really interesting. I keep it in mind.
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Yea I have noticed the same thing. They have moved away from nice large side fan ports where a large fan moves a lot of air and makes little noise to these disco towers. I cut the wires to the LEDs on any fans that might come like that if the tower wont allow them to be turned off.

Unfortunately it seems memory for the most part comes with those silly lights today as does the Corsair AIO liquid systems. I don't mind the Corsair software to control the PSU (its needed to switch it to single rail anyway) and the AIO waterblock head lighting as it works well but I have found the Asus motherboard software as well as the memory manufacture's software is terrible for efficient design and hits the CPU far too hard in some cases. I just uninstalled all that junk and let the memory sticks run their default light show. 

There is a cheapo tower option but I honestly can't say or vouch for how well made, or, how much it would take to get it up to speed with better fans. The Rosewill Thor V2

It has a similar look to the HAF 932 and X series and at 130 plus shipping it may not be a bad project box to work with. https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16811147053  I did not dig into the specs at the Rosewill site so I cant say if it would support a 360mm radiator but from the look of it I would think it would. 



Nice find, looks good for the purpose. And I'm pretty sure it can take a 360 rad on top. Some modifications might be needed tho because it's got 2x120 / 2x140 fan positions on top but it seems there is room to work with. I'll see if I can find it here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 5:09pm
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-03-2020 at 6:41pm
There ya go..   I would cut the screen out of the back and allow 100% flow without the perf metal and replace with a round wire grill like I showed in the Haswell thread.

Looks like there are upper vents on the side door that allow intake..  those would feed the radiator without drawing warm air up through.


Be aware... 
I would call that a project box as it is not a high end built tower to exacting specifics like Ted pointed you to. If you don't want deal with a project box, go with what he outlined which is nice .. there may be some metal tweaks and tangles that need to be addressed including slot fits but its a heck of a lot cheaper than a few hundred bucks. I like large towers even if the blinky light gamers hate them...  they breathe with low RPM intake fan airflow!! Big smile


Except the rear fan..  that one I would bump up just a little more in speed under full load (like 1500-1700 RPM full) compared to the intakes which will run 600-900 max and to compensate for the volume coming in which will balance out with the 3 AIO H150i fans Big smile

I run 230mm on the side with the perf metal in place (didn't cut it) and 140mm on the front and rear. (cut the back perf metal out) no air filters. Don't need them in my environment, just clean the tower/fans and video card once a year. Blow out the radiator and the PSU with compressed can air. PSU runs a bottom fan.  




Suzuki RF900R    Rice Rocket!   nice  Big smile


I was a saddlebag schlep/cruiser.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-04-2020 at 3:59pm
You won't hit the top end communication performance with 2 sticks until such time as the memory manufactures make changes on their end. 


32GB+ is a give and take all the way round. 


Being where you are don't see a problem with heat on the sticks if the tower and room location is right.



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Yeah, I think I am going for the 4x8GB 4000 CL15 kit and see where it gets me. 
As for the Roxwell case, I can't find it here so I'm concidering either the 750D or the R7 and make the modifications as planned. And for storage 1x Samsung 970 1TB M.2 NVMe and 1x Samsung 970 2TB M.2 NVMe. As for the PSU, would you say there is advantage to get one that I can switch to single rail? The one I looked at can't be switched (Corsair RM850x) so maybe I should look at the HX850i?

The RF was a budget sports/sports tourer from Suzuki, manufactured for the US market between 1994-1997. For Europe, it was available between 1994-1999, the 99 model being extremely rare. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2020 at 7:06am
I just threw the case option out there.. I know your options might be limited.

Yes, I would do the HX850i (requires the USB link to the motherboard) and use the corsair link software to lock it in single rail mode.


The bike? Its still a rice rocket!..  much respect for being able to run one of things! 

I always tried to have the queen seat filled in order to lean back comfortably while cruising with mine.   Big smile

Hell, sometimes it even came with a massage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-05-2020 at 7:54am
Okay I'll change the RM for the HX. For sure it's a rice rocket, especially in it's original state, but I quickly adapted it for touring too with a slight handlebar rise, flip up windscreen, a wingrack for 3x hard bags and a scottoiler chain lube kit. I've been all over Europe with that bike. It's a keeper. 

Heh I don't recommend taking passengers on the RF. Having someone on the back seat on my bike means that person would likely be leaning on me...But having the rear case attached to the wingrack gives them a natural backrest and can rectify the issue LOL

Seems like you had some really nice pillion riders with you LOL
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You're going the right way Hans, you will be fine with a new rig. I didn't doubt it

I miss those days..  I know I can't handle a pig anymore but I've thought about renting a tricycle and hitting Sturgis one more time. Problem is I don't need a damn silver alert sent out but it would fun just mess with some heads too. LOL
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Thanks I got good help here pointing me in the right direction Wink

As for the tricycle, there is a saying that goes something like this: You don't regret the things you did, you regret the things you didn't do.
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There is a Corsair HX850 without the "i", which has a switch on the back for single/multirail. So no corsair software needed for the switching of rails. It's about $30 cheaper than the HX850i. Are you using the software for anything else than the switching of rails?

 I've also read that I don't really have to use the Corsair software for the CPU Cooler iCue H150i unless I want to change the silly RGB lighting, which I don't care about anyway.  The fans and pump can be connected to the motherboard instead and I can use the Asus software to control them instead of some potentially CPU eating corsair software. 

Apperantly the pump is powered by a SATA connector and only one cable is attached to the connector that goes to the pump header on the motherboard  (for speed monitoring). I suspect because of that,  and if I don't use the corsair software, it always runs on full speed, but isn't that how the pump usually operate on theses coolers? I have always run the pump on the H110 in the Sandy-Bridge E rig on full speed. But that cooler doesn't have any Corsair software to control it. The fans and pump are all connected to the motherboard, like I want to connect the iCue H150i.
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Surprisingly I have found the Corsair iCUE software to not have any noticeable hit on the CPU. I use it to control the fan speed based on liquid temp with a custom curve. I set the low end to 28c and the high end to 38c with a diagonal line between and the fan speed is perfect for the 78F room environment. It also allows the same kind of fan control over the AX860i PSU with the low end at 29c and the high at 60c.

The water pump on the H150i does not change speed on their product and always remains a constant 1080-1100 although it can be monitored. Probably best to do from the AIO water pump input on the motherboard and set a alarm for RPM failure. I use the Asus software for tower fan control. As for lights on the waterblock, I set those to a basic green-yellow-red based on temp 30c-60c-75c in the iCUE software. I have found the software has an update to it almost monthly but there is never any setting lost during or after a update.

This is the first time I have used liquid for anything other than experimenting and the first AIO. I am not displeased with it in any way however if it ever goes out I probably wont waste time getting it fixed or spend to replace it and will instead go back to some type of air solution.  


As for the PSU..  that is up to you. As long as its a good 850 and has single rail ability that's all that matters. 


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Hans..  I have some news for you about the H150i Pro

Just got off the phone with a Corsair rep..   this info is not in any of the provided nomenclature with the product I have had for over a year and it does change some things, not considerably but still in a positive direction.

The water pump is in fact configurable for speed but only in the iCUE software. It defaults to what corsair outlines to be "quiet mode" or 1100RPM and the method to change that is easy but if you didn't know it was possible, you would never know it could be done. Nothing  in the software or the instructions outlines this here.

You can set custom fan curve speed as I mentioned and save it I set mine to 26c for the low end and 38c for the high which ramps the 3 fans after placing them on that profile. The temp selections work for the 78F room environment.. yours may be different.

To change the water pump speed, one of the settings on the side must be selected first: Quiet, Balanced, Extreme THEN click the water pump RPM readout and that will change the pump speed to a fixed value. 

Quiet (default) = 1100
Balanced = 2100
Extreme = 2800

There is a slight noise change going to extreme but I noticed little to none switching to balanced. 


It is a static change for speed. The fans will still be controlled based on liquid temp but the pump remains static at the speed set. 

I am going to run some compare tests here and see where the CPU hits its highest temp @ WATT load to find out where or if there is a difference from past test results.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-11-2020 at 4:27pm
This actually changes everything..  I may be going to 5.3 24/7  lidded  HA!  LOL

I'll know more in a day or so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2020 at 12:19am
Interesting, thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2020 at 2:10am
I can give you the results now..

I was able to achieve 5.3 stable and within temps on my specified load tests, not a problem

Problem was the voltage to do it. 

So, I can run 5.3 and based on my calculations I could be replacing the slug in 25-40 months, or.. go for the fallback plan.

5.2GHz just like I had except I raised the CPU core voltage slightly (I use adaptive and a very special BIOS setup) and was able to get 200MHz more out of the cache (originally 4600, now 4800) and win for the long haul.


So I am now @ 5.2GHz and 4800 with a cooler overall CPU.


Liquid systems are all about the liquid temp..  every single C you can drop them, the better.


So mounting the radiator and fans attached to it outside the tower, on a side where no heat can be reintroduced.. may not be a bad idea but where you are may not make a difference.


None the less..  setting the pump to BALANCED = 2100RPM..   is a win

I would not run EXTREME = 2800RPM   like any other mechanical device, you don't put your foot flat down on the accelerator 100% of the time and expect the device to run the long haul distance.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2020 at 8:22am
Thanks Nick, and good job. I'll use the Corsair iCUE software then. So you're not running the CPU clock the same way as you did with the Haswell, meaning fixed CPU clock speed but variable Vcore? You're running both clock speed and Vcore variable now, depending on load?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2020 at 12:37pm
I am running the CPU the same way I ran Haswell which is a constant fixed clock speed but I am not using the the same method to achieve that. These are not Haswell CPUs. Although there are different approaches to clocking them I use a + adaptive voltage approach 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-12-2020 at 1:21pm
Okay. I made some orders of parts today. So here's the list so far:

ASUS ROG MAXIMUS XII HERO (WI-FI)

Intel Core i9 10900K

Corsair iCUE H150i RGB PRO XT

Gskill F4-4000C15Q-32GTZR (at least two weeks of waiting)

Corsair HX850

Fractal Design Define 7 XL - Black Solid (FD-C-DEF7X-01) 

Noctua NF-A20 PWM (side fan for the tower)

Samsung 970 EVO Plus 1TB

Video card and 2nd drive will be added later.
This is gonna keep me busy for a good while.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2020 at 2:39pm
I need to refresh my memory so I have been reading the bible thread.

So before installing Windows I will run the memtest86 v8.4 with XMP set and then each stick 3 full test passes. That's clear.

But what about testing two and then four sticks when each individual stick has passed the test? 

I did it with the Sandy-Bridge E system when I was overclocking it a good while ago.

So I was thinking:
Two sticks 3 full test passes.
Four sticks 3 full test passes. 

Or do we do this once a clock is established? Or do we use that other software you mention in the Flight Simulator 11 thread (HCI Design Memtest) once Windows has been installed?

And thank you for presenting the Overclocking after Haswell outline over in that thread.
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ha!.. hope you are enjoying the outrageous shenanigans going on in that thread LOLLOLLOL

I wrap up the entire outline in one post.. probably delete the original first part and repost it all in one. I'll link the new location where parts 1-3 are now.

as for memory testing..

One stick at a time. New processors error correct with more than one, so if you test more than one you could get fooled by the system.

Obtain a recent version of the boot stick memtest for your offline test. The version from the old bible thread is outdated for DDR4. You shouldn't have a problem locating. I'll look if you cant find, however run your individual offline stick tests to be sure you don't have hard dud. 

Its done to test your memory purchase first.

After the offline is done, you really should obtain the paid version of HCi Windows Memtest as it has become a very inexpensive a gold standard for checking memory in Windows and especially in a clock, but you must also understand that when running that test it must pass the 500% point in order to call it a solid setup and then later, a stable clock with memory speed/timing.

Some things have changed..  so once you have confirmed with the offline (single sticks) the first time, if you are using HCi Memtest, you do not need to repeat the offline again unless you wish to do just for peace of mind. Before HCi that really wasn't an option.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-17-2020 at 3:57pm
Got it. The bible thread however had an update mentioning DDR4 with the download link to memtest86 v8.4 which still seems to be the latest version so all good. Okay so I test each stick separately offline and then put all four sticks in, install Windows and then test with the paid version of HCI Memtest in Windows as described.

And yes, the Flight Simulator 11 thread is interesting in many ways LOL 
And the outline couldn’t have come at a better time Thumbs Up
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