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"W" key sequence

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NR16020 View Drop Down
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    Posted: January-06-2012 at 6:22pm
Hi,
I would like to find out how a person can add (or take out) a panel that is displayed during the "W" key sequence (cycling through the panels when pressing the "W" key on the keyboard).
Which text in panel.cfg does this? (Or is this done by changing code in another file?)
For example, in the default Cessna 172 of FSX, there are a total of five panels which are cycled through when pressing the "W" key.
Thanks so much,
Randy

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Jonahbird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:41am
Hi Randy
It would be the panel.cfg. The panels are Window00,01 etc. listed at the top. Two forward slashes in font of the panels you don't want to see should do it. Backup the file before tinkering with it.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 3:19am
Thanks, Frank.
But there MUST be more to it than what you wrote.
For example in the panel.cfg of the default Cessna 172 of FSX, there are six Windows defined in [Window Titles]. However, only five windows cycle through when a person uses the "W" key.
Also, of those six (in the [Window Titles]) two are not the ones in the "W" key sequence.
(Those two not in the sequence are the
Window01=Radio Stack and the Window02=GPS)
Therefore, at least one OTHER window not listed in the [Window Titles] appears in the five windows of the "W" sequence.
Specifically, which "coding" and which windows are the five that appear in the cycle (sequence) when a person presses the "W" key when flying the default FSX Cessna 172?

I'd really like to find out about this, because I want to begin doing some modification of aircraft panel.cfg and/or panels, with other aircraft.
I am preparing to fly the Amelia Earhart Lockheed L10E with the extra large capacity fuel tanks on her around the world flight.
Thanks again,
Randy

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Jonahbird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 4:52am
Sorry Randy, I wrote from memory early this morning. I'll go upstairs and switch on my FS equipment, and take a look.
I do a lot of panel.cfg amendment, but have never touched the default C172. I rarely fly that. I prefer the Carenado C182RG.
I'll come back to you.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 5:20am
Right. They are there (on my FSX,anyway). And, they come up in the order I would expect.
I think you are missing the fact that there are 3 alternative main panels. These are selected by clicking on 'Main Panel' to reveal a sub menu. Here you can (or should be able to ) select Normal,IFR or Landing views. They are 00,04 & 05 respectively.
If I can help with the amendment(s) you want to make, please ask. At the moment I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:10pm
Thanks.
Specifically, which line in the panel.cfg file tells if that window will appear in the "W" sequence.
Since some of the windows defined in the panel.cfg do not appear in the "W" sequence, what is it about those windows' definitions that leaves them out of the "W" sequence.
What I am trying to accomplish is to go to my Lockheed L10E aircraft's panel.cfg and do a similar modification, so that 1) one of the the windows in the "W" sequence will be a lowered "dashboard" in which there will be more of the glass windshield, and therefore the ground outside will be more visible and 2) I want to add another panel to the "W" sequence (in the Lockheed L10E).
I, of course, am referring to the 2D panels, as the VC cockpit modifications are much more complex (and/or not even possible).
Thanks again!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 12:53pm
My last post was a bit lengthy, so here is the short-form question:
Which line in the panel.cfg file tells IF that window will appear in the "W" sequence?

Frank, you wrote: "they come up in the order I would expect".
What line in the panel.cfg is that? (that determines the order)
Also the "3 alternative main panels".....
How does one make them in another aircraft that does not have them?

Lastly, if I could at least find out my main question of
Which line in the panel.cfg file tells IF that window will appear in the "W" sequence?
Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 2:43pm
I've spent sometime trying to fathom this out. I haven't used the 'W' key for several years. I always fly VC in triple screen (Full Screen mode) and have a Zkey pad. The panel buttons are progd to Shft+1 etc.

I'm guessing you use one screen and fly in Windows mode. Is that correct?

I've been trying in all modes and get different results. In single screen windows the rotation is -clear cockpit view - main panel-IFR panel- minipanel. That misses out Radio (01) and GPS(02). I can't think why.

Sorry I'm not being much help. I have to say the C172 panel.cfg file is not a tidy one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 4:12pm
Frank,
Yes, I fly in Windows mode, single screen.
(I don't have deep pockets, but do love flight simming. After ten years with the same weak computer; a 900 MHz CPU and 16 Mb video card and 250 Mb RAM; I finally bought a strong computer this past June: 3.5 GHz CPU, 1 Gb video and 8 Gb RAM)
I am trying to get ready to fly the Amelia Earhart around the world route in her plane, a Lockheed L10E, which someone modified to much larger fuel tanks (and much heavier weight when they are filled). However, the view out the windshield is lousy; even when flying straight-and-level at just a couple of thousand feet AGL, one cannot see land out the front. Also, even though it may not be fully realistic, I need better navigation gauges. The VOR gauge is lousy and I need a larger one.

So, I want to add a couple of windows to the "W" cycle, one in which the view out the front shows more "clear windshield" while also showing most of the instrument panel. (not just the five-gauge minipanel which doesn't show any dashboard backing, so doesn't even look realistic)
The reason that I keep referring to the default Cessna 172 is that everyone has that, so anyone reading this can refer to it (not the case with an add-on) and also because there are two extra panels in the "W" cycle of the Cessna 172 that show the entire instrument panel, and each is different in the amount of "clear windshield" that is shown. The one that shows more windshield (while still showing most of the instruments) is the one that I would like to duplicate (or as much as possible) in the Lockheed L10E.
Oh, by-the-way, you can see by my "fictitious user-name" NR16020 how much of an Amelia Earhart fan I am. So, I am trying to really prepare for the around-the-world flight in her plane.
Thanks again. I really do appreciate both your help and the extra time that you have spent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 4:18pm

Please read my above (LONG) post, but add this to it.

Originally posted by Jonahbird Jonahbird wrote:


 The panel buttons are progd to Shft+1 etc.
 

Would you be so kind as to tell me what "code" (or text lines) in the panel.cfg file makes one window come up with Shift+1 and another come up with Shift+2 etc.?
I am trying to learn HOW to get certain windows to come up in certain situations.
(and perhaps change the order or selection of those windows/panels)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-07-2012 at 5:18pm
It's getting late here, and at 79 I am ready for bed!!

I will take another look tomorrow when I'm fresher.

Why don't you fly VC in Full Screen? Your equipment should handle that. You can raise and lower your seat in VC mode. And, switch to various views using Shft+1 et seq.

We'll talk again tomorrow.
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n4gix1303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-08-2012 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by NR16020 NR16020 wrote:


Would you be so kind as to tell me what "code" (or text lines) in the panel.cfg file makes one window come up with Shift+1 and another come up with Shift+2 etc.?
 
It's based on the [Windownn] title (nn - 1)
 
For example,
[Window02] will be assigned to Shift+1
...
[Window10] will be assigned to Shift+9
Bill Leaming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-08-2012 at 3:07pm
Bill, thanks much! (superb)
The other main thing that I am trying to find out is what code (or text) in the panel.cfg (or what other file) determines which panel/window comes up in the "W" keypress sequence?
I have really been struggling to get an answer on that one.
Your help is much appreciated,
Randy

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 2:28am
I believe the W key sequence is independent of the panel.cfg file and is in fact an FSX standard.

2d panel, minipanel, unobstructed view.

The sequence you can build or customize would use the A key and follow the various camera views, defined in the aircraft.cfg file.
Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 6:15am
The default Cessna 172 (in FSX) has 5 "W" key views. Other aircraft have less.
There must be a difference in the .cfg files (or some other file?).
The Cessna has an unobstructed view, a 2D panel and two other 2D panels which have different amounts of windshield (therefore outside view), as one cycles through using the "W" key.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 8:38am
Yes, and I know some with as many as 15. They usually have a window called 'Icons' or 'Simicons'. That presents a block of buttons (hot spots) which take you to the required panel. Others with more than 9 and no 'Icon' window will only show the first 9 on keyboard presses Shft+1 to Shft+9. They find Windows 00 to 08.

The dropdown in FSX is always present to give access to other views, but availability depends on whether you are in Windows or Widescreen mode. I don't know why that is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 12:00pm
Yes, I know what happens (with windows/panels) and I know (usually) how to bring the windows "up" (to the fore.... to use them).
However, what I am trying to get someone to tell me is how I can CHANGE (or modify) the windows/panels which are available in the sequence of the "W" key-presses.
In other words, if an aircraft has, for example four windows which are cycled through during the "W" key sequence, and I want to add a fifth window that isn't currently there, how do I do that?
Or if there are four windows which are cycled through during the "W" key sequence, and I want to delete one of the windows (delete from the "W" cycle, not totally delete it) so that there are only three windows which cycle through the "W" key sequence, how do I do that?
I need to know specifically what "code" (text) in the panel.cfg (or aircraft.cfg or ?? file) that I need to change in order to get my views to do what I have mentioned.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 1:24pm
I can do that, but specifics would be better that generalities. I did mention the double forward slash method in an earlier post. That leaves the entry in the panel.cfg but FSX cannot read it.

Perhaps I could amend a file for you. Contact me by PM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 2:22pm
The double forward slash simply takes out a line.
What I am trying to find out is what code (or text) actually gives the command to FSX to include (or exclude) a window in (or not in, as the case is) the "W" key sequence.

Some windows defined in the panel.cfg are not in the "W" key sequence, and some are.
Which line(s) in the panel.cfg determine this? (or is this determined in some other file, such as aircraft.cfg?)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 6:19pm
I am sorry - I don't know. I hope someone else can help you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 8:20pm
I'm not sure, but look at this line in the C172:

ident=MAIN_PANEL_ALT1

My guess is that you could name other windows ALT2 etc and they would show up.

From the SDK:

Quote: "ident      Specifies a unique identifier to define the panel window. You must have an ident for each panel window. Valid entries are the following:

MAIN_PANEL
MAIN_PANEL_ALTn (where n is 1 to 9)
THROTTLE_PANEL
RADIO_STACK_PANEL
COMPASS_PANEL
MINI_CONTROLS_PANEL
ANNUNCIATOR_PANEL
ANNUNCIATOR2_PANEL
IFR_MAIN_PANEL
COLLECTIVE_PANEL
GPS_PANEL
OVERHEAD_PANEL
PARKING_BRAKE_PANEL
FLAPS_TRIM_PANEL
FUEL_PANEL
ELECTRICAL_PANEL
TRIM_PANEL
LANDING_GEAR_PANEL
MISC_POPUP_n (where n is 1 to 10)
MINIPANEL

If your panel windows description does not fit any of above, use any number between 10000 and 19999. Lower and higher numbers are used internally.
There should be a MAIN_PANEL for every aircraft, otherwise other panels may not be rendered correctly."
Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2012 at 8:26pm
Bert, thanks. I'll try it out soon.
This just might do it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n4gix1303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 1:13pm
As already mention several times, the "W" cycles through camera views that have absolutely nothing to do with the panel and/or panel.cfg file.
 
The various views are defined in the default Cameras.cfg file. Eliminating selected camera views is global in scope, meaning that if you remove or comment out any defined camera view, it will affect all aircraft.
 
AFAIK, there is no method to exclude specific camera view from the "W" cycle on a per-aircraft basis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonahbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 1:40pm
Hi Bill

Thanks for that input. This old man is still learning.

Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 1:50pm
Bill, thanks. That helps.
However, not all aircraft have the same number of "W" key views. Many have just four views when cycling the "W key".
Also, with different aircraft, the actual views (in the "W" key sequence) ARE different.
For example, in the default Cessna 172 of FSX, there are three views that show the entire instrument panel (left-to-right) and those three views differ only in how much is shown of the windshield (top-to bottom) and, therefore, how much can be seen outside in front of the aircraft.
Most other aircraft do not have that much variation of the entire instrument panel/clear windshield view(s).
Are these the ident=MAIN_PANEL_ALT1, MAIN_PANEL_ALT2 etc.?

The other two views (of the default Cessna 172) available when cycling through with the "W" key are the minipanel and the outside view in which no gauges are shown. And, yes, those two views ARE shown for almost all aircraft.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 3:28pm
Bill,
I just looked in the cameras.cfg file (for the first time).
I don't see anything in there that seems to affect which views are in the "W key" sequence.
[CameraDefinition.004] is the spot view.
[CameraDefinition.006] is the map or top down view.
etc. etc.
NEITHER of these two (nor most others) are included in the "W key" sequence.
Those definitions look like they may be what is seen during the "S key" sequence. (And the "S key" sequence is not what I am trying to modify.)

Let me try stating my questions from another angle.
More than anything, I want to add an additional view (while keeping all of the current ones) to the "W key" sequence of the DC-3 (by "DC-3 Airways"). I want to add a view which shows the main panel, but with more (vertical dimension) of the windshield and less of the lower part of the instruments. The default Cessna 172 does this (as part of the "W key" sequence) so it should be possible for other aircraft, yet it is not in any of the DC-3, DC-4, Lockheed L10E aircraft that I have flown.
The reason that I want this result is so that when I am flying, straight-and-level, I can both see most of the instruments and see land out front of the aircraft.
The minipanel (in the "W key" sequence) is not realistic enough and the full panel (of the DC-3) is almost like flying with the windshield painted over.
(not quite, but almost)
The default Cessna 172 is an example of an aircraft in which the main panel is available in a view that also has the clear windshield low enough that a pilot can see (flat) land straight out front while flying straight-and-level a few thousand feet AGL.

Is anyone able to actually explain what specific text in what specific files determines which view(s) are the views which are included in the "W key" sequence?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-10-2012 at 6:25pm
Bill
I'm not sure if this is relevant ("
AFAIK, there is no method to exclude specific camera view from the "W" cycle on a per-aircraft basis.")  but there was a simmer called Mikael Seedorff who actrually created a new mini panel for FSX (using the "W" key) and he altered the individual gauge folder (.gau and some .cab files) and then he altered the individual panel.cfg (for monitor placement of the gauges - I guess).  I think he did this because not all the mini panels displayed in FSX?
He designed new mini panels for 1, 2, 3 and 4 engine planes, and you could just display this in any individual plane.  He even had a sequence for RXP gauges in mini form. 
I used them for a time but don't any more.
This probably doesn't have any relevance here but just shows another approach?
Regards
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n4gix1303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2012 at 1:02pm
Okay, to expand upon the subject a bit more, each aircraft.cfg can also contain additional camera views that are unique to that specific aircraft. That means that beyond the basic, default camera views that're defined globally in the Cameras.cfg file, there is some control possible over the additionally defined, unique camera views.
 
As for the minipanel, there is a "default minipanel" which will be displayed during the "W" key cycle unless a custom minipanel view is defined in the aircraft's panel.cfg file. Thus it is possible to add a new minipanel that will (1) be controlled by the "W" key cycle, and (2) be designed as a "landing/flight view" such that you've asked about. That part is in your hands.
 
As you can likely see by now, it is a very complex interconnected mess (er, system) that we've inherited, and because of that there's truthfully no "easy answers" to such questions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-11-2012 at 2:10pm
Bill, your last post helped a lot.
Thanks much!
Yesterday, I received "FS Panel Studio" in the mail (I ordered the program on CD rather than a download version). Scanning through some of the .pdf manual, it looks like I may be able to get the results that I want.
Right now, and for the next few days, my "non-simming" life is keeping me too busy to spend hardly any time with Flight Sim, so I won't know for awhile how all this stuff will turn out.

My main goal is to fly the Lockheed L10E on Amelia Earhart's round-the-world flight, using a panel which is almost like the "DC-Airways" DC-3. However, I will need to "cheat" a little by having a better instrument for VOR navigation. (I will not be able to truly keep to the 1937-only navigation). I like the airplane; the person who did it added the much larger fuel tank capacity and therefore a heavier aircraft weight. I will need a panel that can switch the fuel flow from one tank to another (one at a time, as in the 1937 Lockheed). There are a total of three fuel tanks (left, right and center).
I am a real Earhart buff, as my NR16020 (her plane number) shows.
She disappeared on July 2 and that is my birthday. In high school, I had a big crush (but too shy to ask her out) on a girl whose face looked almost exactly like Amelia's (though she was much shorter). I didn't realize the similarity until years later, when I was looking back at the high school yearbook, and said to myself, "Oh my, she looks almost like Amelia Earhart".

Again, to everyone who has helped (and several of you have added at least a bit of help), thank you very much. Your time spent is appreciated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NR16020 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-12-2012 at 10:56am
What is the web page URL for the FSX SDK?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n4gix1303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2012 at 10:45am
If you only need to reference the SDK manual itself, you can use the ESP SDK (which was essentially unchanged from FSX + SP2) online here:
 
If you need the FSX SDK to access the tools included, the core of the SDK is only available from your original FSX Deluxe, FSX Gold, or FSX Acceleration DVDs.
 
See this Wiki article for details:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2012 at 12:37pm
Did you try the ALT1 ALT2 technique?

I know it is not documented in the SDK, but by inspection, that is how the C172 panel is set up!

...and, if I change the Window idents in the C172, I can make the additional W steps disappear (!)

SO... I believe this may be the "undocumented" way it is done..

Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-13-2012 at 1:02pm
Confirmed.. this will add the Throttle Panel to the W sequence in the FSX Baron:

[Window03]
size_mm=215,337
windowsize_ratio=0.73
position=0
visible=0
ident=MAIN_PANEL_ALT1 // THROTTLE_PANEL

gauge00=Beech_Baron!Engine Controls Unit,0,0
Bert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote n4gix1303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2012 at 10:16am
How did I ever miss that. Don't forget about the zorder=n entry though, as that is required to guarantee that the ALTn panel will always "be on top..."
Bill Leaming
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bert Pieke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-14-2012 at 12:19pm
New to me too

Bert
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