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UTX Tropical America & Caribbean V2 - Released

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kdlovell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kdlovell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March-04-2016 at 8:00am
Thank You Jeff, I will refer to that post.
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Sputz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sputz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2017 at 5:57pm
Hi UTX TAC Team,

A great job on TAC - I am working my way through the whole Caribbean. By way of helping it to be a fantastic product, I would like to offer the following observations which would be good to see a fix for:

Most of the islands have incorrect and inaccurate vegetation class. For example, Trinidad & Tobago (where I lived for 16 years) suddenly has no rivers (noticeable at Rio Clara, of which Rio means river), no vast expanses of coconut trees (huge plantations around Cedros/Icacos) - OK, there is the rare one seen, no world famous La Brea Tarpit from which most of the Asphalt for roads worldwide came from (the only other natural pitchlake is at Lake Maracaibo in Venezuela), no small villages in rural areas where there definitely are villages, and last but not least, roads that appear to go up and down sheer cliffs (most noticeable in North road of Tobago).

A little disappointing to say the least for a payware product.

But there is hope for the Sim community: What I notice on another major Forum is a growing disappointment with the major scenery developers and a huge rise in independent developers working on Photoreal with autogen (several available right now, some freeware).

But, to fit the LC business models currently being sold and keep the present commercial developers happy, wouldn't it be nice to have the developers actually travel to these places we pay for to get the scenery correct (I would immediately apply for a job)?


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portanav View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote portanav Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-26-2017 at 6:47pm
I concur, as I too am a resident and citizen of T&T and use this product, and have noted some inaccuracies. I am also a retired pilot formerly with the national airline of T&T so am accustomed with the  scenery from above.
 


Regards,
Michael.

P3Dv4, PFPX, TOPCAT, AivlaSoft EFB, ProATC/X, Simvoice Checklist, RAAS Pro and UT2.
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quantumleap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quantumleap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-27-2017 at 9:13pm
You have to realise the limitations in the underlying technology and quality of the commercial GIS data.

The FSX landclass system works on roughly 1km square grids which can then be mapped to one of only about a hundred of so choices for all of the worlds urban/rural/vegetative conditions. You will therefore not get an exact match, nor even if you select the nearest equivalent is it going to be a match for the real world.

Next the accuracy and quality of commercial geographic data for many locations in the coverage area for this product is poor. We spent hundreds of hours manually fixing up such data for coastlines for example.

To keep the price of the products down, we also need to utilise automated methods to process the vast majority of vector data such as roads, railroads, water features, etc., from the commercial data providers (the same ones that are used in automotive GPS) to convert them to flightsim scenery.

Small villages can also not be modelled because of the excessive amount of time it would take to do this and the limitations in the flightsim scenery toolkits and landclass.

As for things like roads going up and down sheer cliffs, this is likely because the quality and accuracy level of the mesh for the area (which defines hills/valleys/etc.) which comes from the base flightsim platform is not as accurate as the location of the roads provided in UTX.

In summary, the expectations you have for a low cost entertainment product which covers a very large region cannot easily be met because of the limitations in the underlying system and the development time it would take to deliver i.e. it would take tens of years to produce and would cost considerably more to make it commercially viable. Saying this, with UTX TAC you still get the best vector based scenery and landclass for the region at a reasonable cost .

Jeff


Check out my aviation photography and digital art at Photisify
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Sputz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sputz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2017 at 5:43pm
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for taking the time to give me a detailed explanation.

You are correct that I may not realize the limitations of these commercial projects. But, no rivers???? Vegetation North American instead of Tropical??? Perhaps it is time to reconsider the choice of supplier of commercial geographic data.

My personal perspective can only be from what I see and enjoy, like for example Hawaii-Photoreal which is Freeware and absolutely the best scenery I have ever had the great pleasure to fly (includes accurate tropical vegetation and rivers - where did they get their GIS data?). I would be happy to pay a premium price for accurate scenery like that if required.

The bottom line is that I respect and appreciate your product and the huge effort within the limitations you are under, but if I am disappointed as a paying customer for a product, then that is a fact - I am disappointed.

Thanks again for your input.

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oldfunflyer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldfunflyer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-28-2017 at 6:57pm
If and when you people can (LOL) find a better product then UTX at a cost that will allow most of us to fly it and appreciate it PLEASE POST it here..
 
Happy Hunting and Happy Holidays..
The One and Only OLDFUNFLYER - 79 now and Still knocking holes in the sky.
 
OFF
 
 
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quantumleap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quantumleap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-02-2017 at 9:30pm
Originally posted by Sputz Sputz wrote:

You are correct that I may not realize the limitations of these commercial projects. But, no rivers????

Please explain. Can you give us lat/lon co-ordinates of where you are not seeing rivers as these are part of UTX's vector scenery.

Quote Vegetation North American instead of Tropical??? Perhaps it is time to reconsider the choice of supplier of commercial geographic data.

As noted before, the commercial GIS data is the same as would be provided for a GPS i.e. it would not include land classifications just vector information on roads, railroads and water features.

Quote My personal perspective can only be from what I see and enjoy, like for example Hawaii-Photoreal which is Freeware and absolutely the best scenery I have ever had the great pleasure to fly (includes accurate tropical vegetation and rivers - where did they get their GIS data?).

Again, photo-scenery does not use any GIS data. It is just images.

Quote I would be happy to pay a premium price for accurate scenery like that if required.

UTX products are not photo-scenery. They are vector based scenery.

Quote The bottom line is that I respect and appreciate your product and the huge effort within the limitations you are under, but if I am disappointed as a paying customer for a product, then that is a fact - I am disappointed.

Appreciate that you feel disappointed but disappointment is the difference between expectations and what is actually possible. From what you are describing the biggest factor in this is your expectation for photoreal and/or total fidelity to the real world when UTX is not a photoreal product and total fidelity is not possible in a vector based product based on the technical limitations of the underlying flightsim platform at a cost point which people buying an entertainment product would pay.

Jeff

Check out my aviation photography and digital art at Photisify
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akriesman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akriesman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December-08-2017 at 10:50am
Just to add one thing to what Jeff said.   You don't see Photoreal products covering extremely large areas.    This is due to the fact that the storage requirements and download sizes would be enormous.   

Just covering the entire USA at .6m, with 1 season and no night images would be enormous.  Then, you double the size for adding night versions or for each season.   Also, Photoreal does not support autogen.  So, each building or object has to be hand placed, unless you have footprint data available and some custom software to generate models from it (which we do have).

Look at our XpressSim products.   They cover single cities with Photoreal-like imagery, full seasonal support and objects.    Yet, even the downloads for a single XpressSim city can be nearly as large as the entire UTX USA downloads.

Eventually, there will no longer be a need for vector type products like UTX in the sim world.  But, that time has not yet come.    From a technical standpoint, we are there now.   But from a distribution size, storage space and development time aspect, the industry is are not there yet.   And, the Flight Sim market is shrinking and diversifying into different sims.     This is all making it more and more difficult for commercial developers to make a living at it.

I do commend all the freeware developers for doing their fine work.    I personally started in this hobby as a freeware developer and flight sim hobbyist.    Then, I started charging for products because I was having to pay for commercial data.  Before I knew it, Scenery Solutions became a full-time job developing commercial scenery products.

I can say for certainty that nobody in this hobby is getting rich.   I have had conversations about this with most developers, even the biggest out there.   Even commercial developers are doing it because they get at least some level of enjoyment out of what was once a hobby for all of us.   Unfortunately, once you become a commercial developer, you have overhead costs and data licensing costs that have to be overcome, not to mention the need to make a living.  So, sometimes we have to make decisions based on potential income, instead of doing things that we would like to do.

With UTX, I have personally been looking for ways to improve things using new types of technology and data.   But, there is only so much you can do with vector data in FSX/P3D.   That is why there has not been any new revolutionary releases from any developer in that area.  Everything is headed towards Photoreal, which means products covering smaller areas.   I have put a lot of time the last few months trying to come up with new ideas for UTX and vector data.   But, I am afraid that vector-based products have pretty much hit their limits based on the current simulator technology.    Does that mean we are dropping UTX ?   Not at all.    The product will still be viable for a long time due to some of the issues that I mentioned earlier.   And, we will continue to improve the accuracy of the vector-base features as needed.

I hope everyone has a happy holidays.   We have had a long run here and I am thankful for that and for all of your support.

Cheers,
Allen


Allen

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LouP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2018 at 2:53pm
Hi Guys,

I'm very interested in buying and installing this product. Only thing holding me up are potential conflicts with ORBX global and of course Fly Tampa's St. Martin (the three island package). I'm sure there are others here using these products so I was wondering if you were able to install and use this product ok.

Thanks much,
LouP
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quantumleap View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote quantumleap Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2018 at 10:51pm
UTX TAC should not cause any major issue when used with ORBX global if you make sure that UTX TAC is installed after ORBX global is installed and all the UTX scenery layers are above the OrbX Global ones as seen in the FSX Scenery Library.

You should also not have any issues with the Fly Tampa St. Maarten scenery. Make sure that the Fly Tampa scenery layers are above the UTX entries, and in the UTX TAC Setup Tool make sure you disable the UTX TAC repositioning of the airports which are also supplied in the Fly Tampa scenery i.e. TFFJ and SABA.

Jeff


Check out my aviation photography and digital art at Photisify
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LouP View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February-04-2018 at 11:35pm
Thank you, Jeff. This is good news as I've been hunting for a way to improve that part of the world for a while now.

LouP
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