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UIAutomationCore.dll and Windows 8- or Windows 7

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Rhett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: UIAutomationCore.dll and Windows 8- or Windows 7
    Posted: August-19-2013 at 2:08pm
Thanks Nick for your incredibly informative and helpful "bible" on FSX hardware and setup. I am looking forward to the FSX tuning section and will not touch the fsx.cfg file unless required.

I have followed your bible from beginning to end. I have recently purchased a new rig (i7 Haswell overclocked to 4.2GHz with Nvidia GTX 770 graphics card, 8 GB RAM, liquid coolers, etc.). The only "deviation" I made was installing Windows 8. I have to say that I could easily implement all the required Windows system changes without any problems. The only issue was that I could not run the "TweakPrefetch_5.3.1.3.exe" from the "W7_Optimize" directory download which could not run as this is clearly for Windows 7. Not sure if this is necessary for Windows 8 ? 

What I would like to report back on is that the placement of the UIAutomationCore.dll file in the FSX folder does not seem to be necessary for Windows 8 and in fact has negative consequences. I was about to ask you what could cause FSX to crash with a "FATAL ERROR" whenever I switched to the windowed mode (in order to configure the EZDOK cameras) . . . until I tried removing the UIAutomationCore.dll file from the FSX directory and the problem was solved. 

I have to say that Windows 8 works incredibly well for FSX and is much like Windows 7 to use if you switch the desktop mode (notwithstanding your issues regarding fully disabling UAC without hacking the registry - which I did as you indicated). As I indicated, your entire bible could be followed quite easily and, to date, I have had no issues with FSX working correctly (other than of course the fatal error crashing problem caused by unnecessarily installing the UIAutomationCore.dll file - which is now solved).

You indicated in the "bible" that you did not know the effect or whether it was needed for Windows 8 - so the least I could do is let you know of my experience and hopefully assist others.

Many thanks again.

Rhett Kelly
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 9:11am
Thank you Rhett.   I will note that in the list
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 10:44am
I can't help wondering if this is a side-effect of MS removing the Aero-glass desktop visuals from Win 8 which have been a part of Windows from Vista onwards. Some of the GUI effects can eat up graphics resources which is why they are tuned out in Nick's guides I understand. Microsoft removed them from Win 8 to update the 'dated and cheesy' Aero desktop reverting to a flat and modern tablet look. The real reason of course is that Aero eats battery time on the mobile devices that MS have pushed so hard towards for Win 8.

If what I've said above is correct and your findings hold up across more systems it may mean that some of the visual issues with FSX and Win 7 are alleviated a little.

Maybe there's a glimmer of light with Win 8 after all!

Rob W
i7 980x @ 4.2 GHz, NHD-14 cooler, Asus P6X58D, Corsair 3x2GB 6-6-6-20, EVGA SC2 GTX680, Revodrive PCIe SSD + VRaps + WD Caviar Black HDs. Windows 7 Pro 64. FSX Accel + GEX, UTX, FTX, etc.etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-20-2013 at 11:08am
I will certainly keep the forum posted on progress and whether I encounter any further issues without using the UIAutomationCore.dll "fix".

Regards,
Rhett Kelly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2013 at 10:33am
Hi NickN, Rob W and others interested,

I very sadly experienced another fatal error last night when switching to the windows mode from the fullscreen mode in FSX. So unfortunately the conclusion about the UIAutomationCore.dll file not being required for the Windows 8 OS may not be true.

The only way to seemingly get around my current problem is to pause FSX before going to windowed mode - but I am not even sure this is the solution. I never had this problem on previous FSX installations. 

I have no idea what is causing this. Apologies for creating "hope". 

Not sure if anyone as experience a fatal error in FSX when switching to the windowed mode (Alt + enter)? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, 

Rhett
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-22-2013 at 10:59am
When you put uiautomationcore back does it resolve this problem and can you confirm that?
 
Because we cant say that a single application not working right with it in the directory is the fault of the DLL.. it COULD be a issue between the application with windows8 AND the module.
 
The issue: Is the FSX MENU issue solved REGARDLESS of other applications being started with FSX.. If those applications are not in use, does the introduction of the DLL fix the menu crash problems?  Yes/No
 
If YES, then the target problem is with the APP that most likely needs development changes
 
If NO, then the DLL serves no purpose and the issue is coming from elsewhere, or, it cant be fixed using the DLL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2013 at 5:51am
Hi Nick N,

The problem I have is not the FSX menu problem that the UIAutomationCore.dll file is used for. My problem seems to be a graphics related problem and it causes FSX to give a fatal error when switching from full screen to windowed mode. 

I am now still running with the UIAutomationCore.dll file in the FSX directory. I have never experienced the FSX menu problem with or without the UIAutomationCore.dll file - so not sure if the file is in fact required.

Regarding the problem I have, I decided to carefully go through your bible and nvidia inspector guide to check my setup was correct and picked up your comment "YOU MUST BE IN FULL SCREEN MODE TO USE THIS, NOT WINDOW MODE" under your "advanced use of nvidia inspector guide".

For some reason, I decided to change the "Multi display/mixed GPU acceleration" mode from "single display performance mode" to "multi-display" even though I am only using one screen. Since then I have not managed to re-create the fatal error crash when switching to the windowed mode in FSX - and I tried several times to generate the crash. Not sure if this makes sense at all?

I am using your FSX_P3D_Profiles.nip settings except for the above change. I have also implemented the limited tweaks you provided in this guide for the "1/2 refresh rate" vertical sync. FSX is otherwise working beautifully with 30 FPS set target and maintaining all the time - even around Seattle with Orbx FTX PNW installed and many of their airports. No blurries and really smooth. All scenery settings as per your guide.

What was the reason that you said that the inspector settings would only work in full screen mode and not "windowed mode"? Could this be related to the problem I am having.

Note that I only have one large display monitor and the only reason I ever go to the windowed mode is to make changes to the EZCA settings - which is published by Flight1 I understand? I also sometimes need to check the TrackIR 5 settings.

My gut feel tells me the problem I have/had is/was graphics related. I am using the Haswell 4770 i7 CPU and GTX 770 graphics processor and latest nvidia driver installed as per your guide. Overclocked "only" to 4.2 GHz as I opted for the GTX 770 versus 780 (sorryWink).

Thanks and regards,

Rhett


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August-29-2013 at 8:28am
 
 
They change how drivers work from time to time and it is possible the way the driver model works in Windows 8 is different in Windows 7.
 
Of course when we are talking about a SET of variables such as multiple programs being accessed with FSX things can get squirrely in terms of isolating a issue down to specifics and reasons. For the same reason you may have suspected uiautomationcore in the beginning, the fact that a change in the driver settings 'appears' to correct a problem does not mean that a fix is specific to the driver setting change. It could be a combination of factors.
 
I will dig further into the setting as I get time and see if there has been anything noted or changed in the last year around it.
 
 
As for 1/2 Vsync and window mode..  That does not work in Window mode unless certain Windows features in Aero are enabled. It could be Windows 8 works differently with that. In Windows 7 1/2 Vsync does not apply the advantage of using it in Window mode unless Aero is enabled in which we typically shut those features down for performance and FSX is designed to kill Aero when its launched. There is a hack floating around that allows Aero function with FSX and in turn applies the same smooth result with 1/2 Vsync. I personally have no use for it since I only fly full screen and do not like to deal with hacks and workarounds anyway as they can also introduce wild cards.
 
 
As for the 770..   I did say the 770 is fine with the 4770 and at 4.2GHz it will work. Although somewhat similar in spec the 770 is still a better choice over a 680 with such a setup.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lodestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 7:04am
You have the wrong version in "bible" and on GEX support page - 6.0.6001.18000. That will add freezing, stutters and CTD's. The only version which works is 6.0.5840.16386. This is probably why UIAutomationCore.dll is not working for everyone. I have checked most off reliable FS sources on internet, and almost all are wrong versions(only 2 right versions for now). I have posted this in other forums too. Test it, besides freezing and crashes with 6.0.6001.18000 you can observe that FSX menu is sluggish, but with 6.0.5840.16386 is more responsive and stable. I had to restart PC to see that effects(i'm not sure why)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 7:58am
I never had any issues with it at all
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 9:12am
How would one get hold of the 6.0.5840.16386 version of the UIAutomationCore.dll ?

Thanks for the information "lodestar".

Regards,
Rhett Kelly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lodestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 9:27am
Originally posted by Rhett Rhett wrote:

How would one get hold of the 6.0.5840.16386 version of the UIAutomationCore.dll ?

Thanks for the information "lodestar".

Regards,



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 9:35am
Thank you !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 1:04pm
if it makes a difference I will zip and link in the thread..  the most common used is the one currently linked however with computers there can be systems that may prefer a different file for whatever reason. To date the one I posted is the one that resolves the issues and everyone appears to use which is probably why you don't find anything else or its hard to come by
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulL01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by lodestar lodestar wrote:

You have the wrong version in "bible" and on GEX support page - 6.0.6001.18000. That will add freezing, stutters and CTD's. The only version which works is 6.0.5840.16386. This is probably why UIAutomationCore.dll is not working for everyone. I have checked most off reliable FS sources on internet, and almost all are wrong versions(only 2 right versions for now). I have posted this in other forums too. Test it, besides freezing and crashes with 6.0.6001.18000 you can observe that FSX menu is sluggish, but with 6.0.5840.16386 is more responsive and stable. I had to restart PC to see that effects(i'm not sure why)

I dont think this is correct.

The version Nick posted is also from Vista 32, is from Longhorn RTM 080118-1840 which was Vista service pack 1

They are both Vista 32 and thats all you need, pretty sure about that.

I've been using the one Nick posted for about three months on Win 8-64 FSX Acceleration is loaded to the gills and I haven't had any crashes, just the occasional OOM.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lodestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by PaulL01 PaulL01 wrote:

I dont think this is correct.

The version Nick posted is also from Vista 32, is from Longhorn RTM 080118-1840 which was Vista service pack 1

They are both Vista 32 and thats all you need, pretty sure about that.

I've been using the one Nick posted for about three months on Win 8-64 FSX Acceleration is loaded to the gills and I haven't had any crashes, just the occasional OOM.

They are different version and different size. So, if they are different, maybe they can have some different effects?

There's no need to be logical, it's FSX! Just test it :) 

Again, the wrong version will probably fix menu crashes too, but you may get other issues - freezing, hanging, crashes or stutters. You can see only stutters for example, nothing unusual in FSX. 
But i'm sure, and some other users confirmed this, that i have smoother FSX with the right version. Even FPS are more steady. I have just tried to stay objective(as much as possible)and i said only about menu - that is more responsive. That is very obvious. I see other benefits too, but that may be subjective, still needs to be tested

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulL01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-23-2013 at 8:39pm
IBeen using it for three months, no problems, no stu stu stutters, no menu crash etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2013 at 6:08am
Like I said earlier.. its not the wrong version, its the same version that has been used for years.
 
If there is some kind of issue for a FEW systems that a older version of the file may correct and I find that is true I will link them both but let me make something perfectly clear..  I am not going to replace a file because of a few reports where some of those may be placebo results.
 
 
Do you know how many times someone posts a FSX.cfg file 'tweak' and then a thread starts were 50% of the users claim to see a positive change, 25% claim they 'think' they see a change and another 25% say they see no difference     and THEN after about 6 months almost everyone abandons the tweak because they all figured out it was really not doing anything for them?
 
LOL!
 
 
 
I am not discounting the fact that there could be specific REASONS why a different file may present a different result with all the addons out there installed in systems but I will not sit here and have anyone call the files currently in use "WRONG" because that is nonsense.
 
Windows 8 may not even need that DLL in the FSX directory. I wont have any way to test that so I can not go there at all, but with Windows 7 x64 I am not swapping files on the report of one or two people who claim the file causes 'stutters' after years of use with no such reports...   I call horse hockey    There are too many addons and changes out there that can influence this sim and as I said above I wont discount the possibility that a different version of the file may present a different result under the right conditions, but then would need to ask:
 
Does the file even need to be in that install to begin with?   
 
When it was first reported the use of uiautomationcore.dll fixed the menu crashes my advice was ONLY install it IF your system shows the crash problem. I MAY go back to that advice over posting everyone use it regardless of version.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 777simmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2013 at 8:58am
For what its worth, I have been using version 6.0.6001.18000 from day one without any problems.

So no need to change it for me.

The only thing I DID learn from this discussion is that that file gets updated and if I ever have problems I can try a different version. Good to know.
Rob

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Untill Sept 2012: Core2Duo E8500@3.9Ghz
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lodestar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-24-2013 at 3:17pm
Becouse i started this, i feel responsability to clarify some things.

 

I probably should not have used word "wrong". But this is exactly what i have read somewhere, and English is only third Language for me. I'm realy sorry if somebody felt insulted. But it was my mistake and i assume all responsibility.

 

Flight1 is a reputable company and important place for many flight simmers. They come here to learn about FSX, to discuss, and to download useful files. So, i was thinking it's important thing to share here, if there is a chance for this to make a difference for some people.

 

Actually, i just wanted to let you know about "the other version of this file, which seems to work better for statistically significant ammount of FSX users, in my opinion".

 

I have tested this with other FSX users, to be sure that is not a placebo, and that it works for other people too, before this claim.

 

Again, i apologize if i was not clear enough, no offense was intended.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 9:27am
There is most likely a defined and specific reason if there are systems that respond poorly to one file version over another. 
 
 
The question would be: What, after all these years, is all of a sudden causing such a issue?
 
 
The file fixes MENU crashes. It had nothing to do with performance or anything else of that nature. My original advice around this file was to NOT install it unless the system showed the menu crash issues but after running sessions with the file found there was no harm in it being present regardless of if the menu crash problem appeared or not, therefore I changed that advice and simply had people install the file to assure the issue was covered.
 
 
If there are confirmed issues with different versions then that will change the entire dynamic of the fix:
 
How to know which version of the file to use?
 
 
That presents a definite problem IF both files correct the menu crash but one or the other could create other issues. A user must have a defined way to know which file since EITHER could present the SAME problem.
 
 
I will look into it further as I get time. I said in my post that I was not discounting the possibility that something has changed with addons that is DIRECTLY causing this problem which is most LIKELY the reason and it has nothing to do with the file posted being 'wrong'.
 
on the contrary.. the file is RIGHT, most likely some addon has made this 'wrong'
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-26-2013 at 2:06pm
and one other item.. its also possible users who do NOT have issues accessing menus should not use ANY file..
 
That may actually be the better course of action over any other 
 
So I think the easiest way to deal with this since there no way I can replicate the issue is to reconfigure the directions around its use, go back to my original stance of "If it ain't broke, DONT fix it" and then offer BOTH files for a user to TEST
 
At some point someone may come across the REAL reason for the issue, but right now I have no way to define why or what, so I later today I will rewrite that section and put it on the USER to figure it out since they are the ones installing all these addons into different hardware configurations with different OS's
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September-28-2013 at 9:04am
Bible thread was updated
 
 
I have reposted the entry here:
 
 
 

CHAPTER 4, VERSE 2

 

 

- ADD THE FIX FOR FSX MENU ACCESS CRASHES

 
NOTE: WINDOWS 8 USERS: I can not define the use of this fix for Windows 8. It may or may not be needed or it may not work or create issues with Windows 8. With Windows 7 it should be applied.
 
 
SPECIAL NOTICE: I am changing the originally posted outline to use the uiautomationcore.dll file in order to correct menu crashes.
 
Several years ago my advice with use of this files was to NOT INSTALL IT unless without QUESTION access to FSX menus 'IN-GAME' created a crash. I am now reverting back to that original advice and no longer advising people install this fix UNLESS YOU KNOW FOR A FACT YOU NEED IT.
 
 
THERE ARE TWO VERSIONS OF THIS FILE:
 
v6.0.6001. 18000 - This is the file that everyone has used for years. It is the Vista SP1 32bit file
 
v6.0.5840. 16386 - This is the pre Vista pre SP1 32bit file.
 
 
Apparently in the last several months there have been reports that the original SP1 v1008 32bit Vista uiautomationcore.dll file has been found to create issues with some systems. 'WHY' HAS NEVER BEEN DEFINED.
 
There are people who say the 18000 file is wrong, has been wrong all along and the other version should be used, that is FALSE!
 
FACT: Something has changed in the last year whereby the file that has always worked, was defined correct years ago may be displaying issues with SOME SYSTEMS. I suspect this is due to either a addon or a series of addons in use that have come to the market.
 
 
SYMPTOMS:
Accessing FSX menus creates a crash condition. Placing the 32bit uiautomationcore.dll file into the FSX install directory fixes this issue.
 
 
RECENTLY:
There are people who will TRY the PRE SP1 file and it will CRASH their system whereby the original SP1 18000 file does not and there are those who will crash using the SP1 18000 file where the pre SP1 16386 file does not.
 
 
THEREFORE:
I am reverting my advice BACK to what I originally outlined years ago, DO NOT USE EITHER OF THESE FILES UNLESS YOU ARE SEEING CRASHES ACCESSING FSX MENUS. These files are NOT PERFORMANCE FIXES they only fix FSX menu crashes!
 
IF, and ONLY IF, you are seeing crashes when you access FSX "in-game" menus THEN proceed as follows. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE FSX MENU ACCESS CRASHES THEN DO NOT USE THESE FILES AT ALL:
 
1. Download BOTH of the files presented below.
 
v18000:
 
 
v16386:
 
 
 
2. Unzip them both. Each file will be in a folder with the version number.
 
3. Starting with the original file: v6.0.6001. 18000 drop it into the FSX install directory
 
 
4. Run FSX. If your menu crashes are fixed and you are not seeing any other issues leave that file alone, you are finished.
 
 
5. IF your menu crashes are not fixed OR you happen to see other issues come up and suspect the file MAY BE the cause, then drop the v6.0.5840. 16386 version file into the FSX install directory and recheck. If your issue is not solved, OR, the FSX menu crashes return then use the v6.0.6001. 18000 file
 
 
 
 
IN other words, DO NOT INSTALL these files YET. You can download them both NOW but WAIT and define if you have FSX menu crashes BEFORE following the outline above. If you do not have any FSX in-game menu crashes, DONT USE THEM. 
 
 
 
 
------------------------------------------------------
 
 

 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gui Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-02-2013 at 12:28am
Nick, this is only, only and only for MENU crashes? Or can help/cause crashes to desktop when flying?
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access MENU crashes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rhett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January-09-2014 at 2:17am
Hi Nick,

I simply want to provide you with some feedback as I finally managed to solve my Windows 8 CTD problem when switching from full screen to windowed modes and vice versa.


Maybe this is common knowledge - but I was not aware of it and it is really simple : I enabled the Windows 7 compatibility mode and the "disable display scaling on high DPI settings" and "run as an administrator" - when running FSX.exe. This has really solved all the CTD problems I was experiencing on Windows 8 running FSX - having setup everything else as per your latest "bible". I can really confirm that FSX is now running really well on Windows 8.

Thanks again for your excellent and intelligent support.

Kind regards,
Rhett Kelly
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