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7th and 8th gen pc and windows 7

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Ronski View Drop Down
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    Posted: October-29-2017 at 10:58pm

As promised, a quick guide to installing, running, and yes, now, updating windows 7 on kaby lake and later systems.

We know that Microsoft has said windows 7 ( and 8 ) will not be supported on new 7th and 8th generation systems.
Not exactly true, they install and run just fine,  they even download updates, to a point.
Microsoft decided to break their user agreement to continue support untill 2020 by blocking updates to 7th gen systems, beginning around March this year 2017. 

We used cloning software to do it, then sort out drivers, and also can be done slipstreaming an installation with all updates,  something that could be difficult for the novice user,  so this is for a 'clean' installation of windows 7.  Not as simple as installing windows 10, you're going to have to work at it a little.

  As most new computers now only have USB 3.0 ports, we run into a known issue, as windows 7 does not have 3.0 drivers.
some do run mouse and keyboard without, if installed from DVD, but some didn't.  Easiest way is to download an ISO file for your operating version and yes, you do need a key from valid installation disk in order to activate it.
 Then add the USB drivers to this ISO file, most motherboards have this tool available on their site for your model.   ( obviously, if you have USB 2.0 ports as well then simply install from DVD and use them for keyboard and mouse.)

From another computer:

before commencing, a tip;  clear out your downloads folder, either copy all to another folder or disk, just so things don't get messy later. You can put them back after. You will need a clean USB drive with at least 8gig of space.

1.  get the ISO download tool from here; https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-and-office-iso-download-tool
Then select the version of windows that matches your valid installation disk, and confirm. make sure it has service pack 1, let it download.

2. We used a free program called rufus to create a bootable USB drive; https://rufus.akeo.ie/  get the portable version, after downloading the zip, make sure to extract all files to the downloads folder.  From the extracted folder select the .exe file and run, no need to install.
This will ask for your ISO file and copy it to the USB drive.  leave it at fat 32 file system and it will format the disk first.

3.  Go to motherboard manufacturers website support section for your model and get the USB installation tool. This tool usually includes NVME drivers as well, windows 7 does not know about these drives and may not 'see' the drive, tick the box for USB 3.0 and if using these drives also tick NVME.  Point the tool to your USB drive with the ISO file on it and let it run.

All is needed now is to plug in the USB drive to the new kabylake system and get BIOS to boot to USB. Everything from here on should work exactly as in the past when installing a new OS.  Enter the key from your version of windows 7 etc.  Should it stop installing or not see a drive then a mistake was made in creating ISO file.

Next, go ahead as normal with drivers etc. from motherboard,   we didn't get any errors as most have win 7 drivers, but I have been told some of the newer disks have not included windows 7 drivers, not sure, obviously we couldn't test every type of board, but they are available on the website support section for your model.
Note:   the old Internet Explorer 8 does not work correctly these days,  so get chrome first if you need to download things.
It will be upgraded to IE11 through updates.

UPDATES.

Windows 7 has been out for a while, so there are a lot of updates, hundreds of them.  If you plan on using Office suite, install this before running updates.  As said, Microsoft have modified the updates to block 7th gen computers and generate an error message saying;  "unsupported operating system etc. with the usual, get windows 10 rubbish."
As this began with KB4012218 and KB4012219  around March, and we know that it was part of a rollup type,  it is relatively simple to get around it.

IMPORTANT!
Set updates to; "check for updates, but let me choose to download and install".  ( remember the good old days)
Next, select; check for updates,   go have a coffee or something.   When finished you MUST,  deselect (untick) any or all monthly rollups, especially those from 2017 around March and later,  I just deselected all rollups to start,  they will be available again later.
We couldn't find them, but do have a look for the 2 KB's above,  Microsoft are known to try and sneak things past us. (really, no.. )
If there, deselect.  This method will get all the older updates with few problems at least.
failure to deselect rollups will install the blocking tool and you get the error and no further updates.

As most know, you have to repeat this process a few times, some will fail as they require previous updates etc. etc.  Just make sure to Deselect the rollups each time and continue untill nothing left except the rollups.

Now the tricky part,  there is a patch that removes the change which blocks updates. This is the one we used, get it here; https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc   use latest stable version and the 64bit one.  Go ahead and try the beta's if you enjoy headaches.
What we did, is to download and install each monthly rollup, one at a time, untill it was blocked,  then run the patch, the good news is; the updates completed for that month,  but  the error eventually returned, so it is included in subsequent rollups.  It is a simple matter of re running the patch, it only takes a few seconds, and continue updating untill it returns. I have no idea what would happen if you selected all of them, as we were looking for the offending one. no doubt it would save time do do it all at once.

Now with this patch you can continue updating your windows 7.   But really, once fully updated, I would leave updates turned OFF,  then once in a while check for updates.   Microsoft are aware of this patch and will no doubt use some devious other method to enforce their will on us.

While doing all this and considering making a short video, I found these 2 which shows in detail the proceedures.  The difference being his update method, but it still worked in the end.  I like this guy and the way he presents, even though he sometimes just seems to be lost and rambling on.   He makes mistakes but corrects them,  then again, who doesn't.   So sit down, take the time and watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VTC4k6SLWY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxvNUXnN9hY

This will get us through to 2020 should you find it neccessary to buy a new computer.  That's if Microsoft ever stop telling lies.   Microsoft are starting to remind me of my ex.   Don't misunderstand me, I still miss my ex, but my aim is improving.Wink


Please, do your self a favour, keep this USB copy of windows 7 somewhere safe.
Once I have a clean fully setup copy installed on a new computer, I always clone it to another disk and store it, saves a lot of time should you need to do it all over.

Ron.

 


 

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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-30-2017 at 8:33pm
Be aware, for 6th Generation Sky Lake there are no Microsoft restrictions any longer. Microsoft has recanted on their refusal to support: https://blogs.windows.com/business/2016/08/11/updates-to-silicon-support-policy-for-windows/
 
 
 Any/all Sky Lake based systems are supported up through the Windows 7 support period.
 
You will however need to perform a Windows 7 ISO or other merge of the USB 3.0 and (If you need it) NVMe setup to run Sky Lake.
 
Asus actually makes a tool that will allow several different methods to accomplish the task which includes support to make a ISO to burn to DVD without the need for a USB drive, or, using Ronski's outline will work too.
 
 
 
That is for both z170 and z270 systems. z370 is a different animal and is not backward compatible with Sky/Kaby Lake
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 12:59am
I will bet real money I can make a Sky Lake system running the z270 chipset with a Nvidia 1070, and, UHD 4K monitor running off of DisplayPort 1.2 run P3D rock solid.
 
I will delid the 6700K and use original Coollaboratory liquid pro (the original not the gel) just like I did for Haswell 4.5 years ago.
 
No need for Xwhatever Intel 1000-2000 dollar processor
 
 
The AIC PCIe M.2 will drop into the 3rd PCIe port and has the heatsink included. Motherboard will allow another PCI3 4x off of M.2 port if desired, not needed.
 
 
Memory:
 
G.SKILL TridentZ Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin DDR4 SDRAM DDR4 3200 (PC4 25600) Intel Z170 Platform Desktop Memory Model F4-3200C14D-32GTZKW   Black/White.. 365.00 USD
 
 
 
 
Will run DP 1.2 with USB-C 3.1 and 2 HDMI for production work on split screen
 
 
This will all be on W7x64 and wont be hindered or bothered by Windows10x updates or any other MSw10 nonsense.
 
It will be upgradeable to W10 later if desired.. the tower was for excellent airflow, the bling is a perk, but it also allows a large water cooling system if desired later too...    I prefer air.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 1:14am
What's the reason this time not going for the top dog video card which would be the GTX1080 or 1080Ti? 

Hans

W7/64 Ultimate, FSX Gold, SB-E 3930K @ 4.7, Sabertooth X79, GTX580, 4x2GB G.Skill RipjawsZ @ 2133-9-11-10-28-1T, Corsair H110+Obsidian 900D,Seasonic P-1000, GEX, UTX, UT2, REX, S-Tech LC, NGX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 1:16am
Don't need it.. from what I have surmised reading the tech, if a modern 4K monitor is used with DisplayPort output, the 1070 should work just fine.
 
TV's on HDMI are not monitors. The tech they provide is typically 2 years behind if not more
 
I might be wrong.. I will find out LOL
 
 
This much I do know..    P3D is not optimized nor is made to work in 4K. Those who insist are making their own headache and creating their own problems with exorbitant costs by using it that way.
 
I will work out the rest and report findings. Many of the parts I ordered are not required to accomplish the goal but that's my list which I feel covers all the bases where the tower can be used for basic real world production work too, not just play games.
 
I would add additional M.2 slot PCIe x4 card as well as several SATA mechanicals with SSD's for production work
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 1:56am
So the GTX1070 is fast enough for the CPU speed you intend to run without the risk of bottlenecking the system?

That has at least in the past been the reason to go for the top dog, right?
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 2:04am
I'll let you know...  
 
I honestly don't think the Haswell running 4.7-4.8 DDR3 2400 C9 from 4.5 years ago is being overrun by a 'true' modern UHD 4K monitor driven by a 1070 or 1080Ti
 
780GTX?,.. yes .. I will check how bad
 
I intend to put the 1070 card into my Haswell system and run the UHD monitor to see what happens and then compare to the new build.
 
It wont be 30Hz, 60Hz full UHD 4K. 30Hz gives me a headache, tried it on setups in the past.. 
 
I may be wrong and a 1080Ti is required, I will find out.
 
There wont be any wavy grass or large dynamic lighting 4096 addons involved. Those features were just introduced and undergoing development. The dust needs to settle on all that before a reasonable/fair evaluation can be made.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 1:37pm
Interesting. Will you be doing the same tests as we did back in 2013 in the 3DMark06 thread?

http://www.simforums.com/forums/topic46244.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 1:52pm
Interesting discussion...

I've been thinking about what to do next with the current state of Windows. While my present system is still fine I want an upgrade path when the hardware changes make it worthwhile for me. I got some decent DDR4 back in May as insurance while it's still available Wink. I think the price has increased already since then, maybe by 20% or so.

I want nothing to do with Win 10 on any machine that I need to have control over - this is more of a concern for me than privacy etc. which seems pretty much a moot point these days no matter how careful you are personally (think Experian).

One problem I can foresee with Win 7 is driver support for new hardware further out into the future although nothing last forever anyway and the Win 7 strategy discussed here is probably only viable for maybe the next 5 years or so. What do you think Nick?
i7 4790K @4.4 GHz, Asus Z97 Deluxe, 8GB 2400 DDR3, Asus GTX980, Samsung SSDs 850 Pro + WD HD, Windows 7 Pro 64. FSX Acceleration.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 2:12pm
@ Hans, Yes..   still valid but the application is changing. PhysX tests are included with the later 3DM versions in which the application in question has none, and although some later lighting tests (3DM11) may start to become valid, right now that is all new and still under development. I really can't see how to relate the later 3DM tests to P3D in its current state but that may change later.
 
 
None of the 3DM tests will be run in 4K. I would not have a way to equally compare the older and newer. We have seen in the past what 10K points can mean to FSX and I think that is still valid (at this time) with P3D it was with v3. The major difference in the last year has been the use of the app in 4K. I think as big screen TV's have dropped dramatically in price, the use of 4k for Flightsim had dramatically increased and I understand why, its just that the app itself isn't optimized and developed to run those pixels without crushing performance.
 
I won't be using a TV though, it will be a modern (released this year) UHD monitor on the preferred digital input for the resolution.
 
 
 
@ Rob, yes that is a very strong possibility giving how much pressure MS is placing on manufactures to push W10. Thus far I have not heard anything about, say, Nvidia developing cards that will only work in W10 (other than for DX12 support). Eventually, if I am still alive LOL, I will have no choice but to move to it as will everyone else.
 
But after them barking very loud and then backing down on Sky Lake systems I wouldn't put it past MS to look at the market and figure out new and creative ways to push the OS on as many as possible using harsher tactics
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 2:32pm
@ Rob: Yes, Experian...  moral of that story is; there is no such thing as 100% privacy and security. The individual has to take it upon themselves to assure as much of that as possible on their own. Relying on any online "service" including a operating system that is now considered "a service" to do it with the complete breach of what should have been considered "Fort Knox" in being secure, that was an eye opener.
 
This has all come about because of nearly 2 decades of clicking: I AGREE  where they take it further and further each EULA and figure out just what the public is willing to allow and ignore. Younger generation doesn't care as long as they get their new phone, pad, gizmo's that listens to them at home and answers when they want to buy something. LOL  
 
I mean, really..   they should just let the cable companies use their boxes to monitor daily activity at home and adjust programming to suit. They certainly wouldn't use that technology for anything else and of course its always 100% secure. Ermm  Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 8:20pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Be aware, for 6th Generation Sky Lake there are no Microsoft restrictions any longer. Microsoft has recanted on their refusal to support: https://blogs.windows.com/business/2016/08/11/updates-to-silicon-support-policy-for-windows/
 Any/all Sky Lake based systems are supported up through the Windows 7 support period.
 
You will however need to perform a Windows 7 ISO or other merge of the USB 3.0 and (If you need it) NVMe setup to run Sky Lake.
 
Asus actually makes a tool that will allow several different methods to accomplish the task which includes support to make a ISO to burn to DVD without the need for a USB drive, or, using Ronski's outline will work too.
 
 
 
That is for both z170 and z270 systems. z370 is a different animal and is not backward compatible with Sky/Kaby Lake
 
 
 
 
I ran through the Asus EZ Tool..  The package includes all the files needed for USB3 for each controller and support for Intel and Samsung NVMe
 
I ran the tool to create a Windows disk but some kind of error popped up.. I have read a few others had the same problem.
 
I found there is a simple method to add the files to your own disk without the tool.. I will quickly outline here.
 
 
Note: This is for z270 motherboards where SkyLake is the CPU. I can not say if it works for Kay but I would think it would as long as its the z270 platform.
 
As Ronski mentioned unless you are working with SkyLake expect MS issues with Windows update and refer to his post at the top of this thread about that.
 
You will need:
a. Windows 7x64 disk with your original key
b. Windows ISO file that matches your key - note: This may not work if you purchased a system builder single system 'disk' with key. Your key may only be associated with that disk.
 
If you purchased a key separate from a disk that key should work for the version you purchased.
 
 
 
1. Create a folder on a drive and name it "Windows 7 DVD", make sure you have enough drive space. I estimate you will need between 6-8GB to work with minimum.
 
2. If you use a Windows install disk, place the disk in a DVD drive, cancel anything that starts, open the DVD and copy all the contents to the folder you created in Step 1
 
NOTE: If you are using a ISO you will need to open the ISO and copy all the files to the folder you created in Step 1. Several programs can do this, 7zip is one and there are ISO programs that can do it too.
 
3. Open the directory you unzipped earlier: ASUS_EZInstaller_V10306, inside that directory open the folder Asus EZ Installer. You will find a zip file named: ASUS EZ Installer.zip  Unzip that file.
 
You will find the directory V1.03.06, open it and then open the directory named:  OS
 
4. Copy both the file:  AutoUnattend.xml  and the entire folder: AutoUnattend  into your Windows 7 DVD directory with the OS files from Steps 1 and 2
 
5. Using a ISO creator software, Select all the files and folders in the Windows 7 DVD directory and then select a different target location to create a ISO, you can name it what ever you wish, I used Windows7x64_Pro_z270.iso
 
I would verify that ISO checking to be sure the Windows 7 DVD directory matches the contents of the new ISO.
 
 
6. You can now either:
a. Burn a new DVD disk
b. Use USB stick software to create a bootable USB stick (8GB stick minimum)
 
The files for Intel USB 3, ASMedia USB3, Intel USB3, Intel NVMe and Samsung NVMe will silently load when the installation disk or USB is used to boot on the new system. There should be no need to do anything other than follow the standard process to install Windows. If you have a 3rd party disk controller you can browse for the drivers to that during the drive selection process.
 
 
After Windows is installed and if your board supports it, USB3.1 USB-C and such should load using the latest driver packages from the motherboard manufacture for Windows7x64.
 
 
z370 Motherboards - Looking over a few I found some of them did NOT have Windows 7x64 drivers however some do such as the TUF z370 Gaming Plus https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/TUF-Z370-PLUS-GAMING/HelpDesk_Download/
 
However, what it does NOT include is the Asus EZ Tool package with the files I outlined above, so based on Ronski's report I would bet the same process above can be used for Coffee Lake motherboards and processors, however, be very aware and check to be sure ALL the Windows 7x64 drivers are indeed available and then be double aware of the MS Windows update issues Ronski point out.
 
When I check the Win7x64 list for the TUF z370 and compare it to the list for Windows 10, there is a lot not listed under Windows 7x64 such as UTILITIES, CHIPSET and SATA that are listed under Windows 10, so I cant say for sure trying to run Win7 on that z370 board can work with full support.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ronski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 10:17pm
Hi Nick,
 
Quote However, what it does NOT include is the Asus EZ Tool package with the files I outlined above
 
Yes, we are looking into drivers for the Z370 boards.  Mainly direct from Intel to see what can be done. Seems this tool IS available from Asus if you choose the Z370-PRO version, but not the Plus version.
 
Why is a mystery. 
 
Looking forward to your findings and new build.  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October-31-2017 at 11:34pm
Its not a mystery my friend, its simple..   the entire process is being made difficult so the typical user runs and just accepts Windows 10 but at the same time plausible deniability is available to the hardware vendor
 
 
 
Its the same plausible deniability I use when I say things like...
 
....P3D isn't going to DX12 anytime soon.
 
....Anyone who runs a ESP application on 4k, an application that could have had the engine rewritten by EA Games within 5 years most likely with updates by now, and, installs 3rd party addons that hit the high notes on new features with a tired engine, deserves everything they get.
 
 
....Thus far I have not seen anything that makes today different that 2007 with respect to "I gotta buy better hardware"
 
 
and my all time favorite referencing the last statement above, and that has been around for nearly 2 decades:
 
.....I think I will spend 3000 bucks or FAR more to run a 60 dollar application, and then spend another 1000 or so within 2 years to continue running a 60 dollar application, that significantly hasn't visually changed by default, in years. At least I have my 1000 bucks worth of addons to go with that.  Shocked
 
 
 
 I will run the same tests against FSX/FSXSE/P3Dv3 and v4
 
There wont be any massive post threads, getting too old. I will simply post results with fast explanations if needed.
 
 
Goals are as follows
 
1. Use the 780GTX in the Skylake DDR4 system running identical CPU speed - only difference will be the motherboard and memory standard/speed-timing
 
2. Use the 1070 in the Haswell system and compare.
 
In both cases equal resolutions will be tested in 3DM and the sims. 3DM will be the default test resolution as performed in the past. For the sims will go with 2560x1600 this is the standard for professional high end photo and graphics use monitors.
 
3. Test UHD 4K full resolution on DisplayPort 1.2 with the 1070 card in both Skylake and Haswell using the 1070 card, CPU clocked equally.
 
Its really that simple. From those tests all should be revealed. However, there wont be any wavy grass, shiny hangar knobs, cows or 3rd party dynamic lighting addons.
 
Its the base we want to understand, after that you get what you pay for to add to it.
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-01-2017 at 1:50am
As I said earlier, I don't believe the 8700K "is all that" and Kay was a refresh of Sky in which Coffee is just about the same, just a hard W10 requirement, a very well planned refresh with clocking ability on Intel's part (with far higher heat, go figure) to use practically the same die for 3 releases which worked into how MS was working the market..   one only need look at the OEMs like Dell to see what game is.
 
Go to the Dell website and look up the systems that might really make a difference, you will find them all in their AlienWare section and they are pushing 8700-to the i9 SkylakeX stupid extreme for the GOTTA HAVE IT layman. You wont very easily find Kay and Sky lower end which are reserved for their cheaper systems. Funny, that i9 can run W7 without restrictions or W10 requirements. General public don't know that
 
But gosh darn those i9 SkylakeX solutions for between 1000-2000 are still very much available.
 
I think Skylake can be clocked and used just as efficiently as Kay and Coffee
 
The only 'major' difference is 40 lane with Coffee and to take advantage of that the board must be a WS class with x16-x16 ability over x16-x8 or x8-x8 PCIe
 
Now, I can't and won't rub a crystal ball with respect to UHD 4K, video cards and the application desired.. that part must be discovered,.but I do know CPU's and the whitepapers that come with them.
 
If I put that 1070 card into the Haswell system that is clocked to 4.75 stable, then run the same card in a 6700K clocked to 4.75 but with DDR4 and with the same baseline test, the difference can be evaluated with merit.
 
I can tell the difference between CPU efficiency and memory speed efficiency using 3DM06. Those test will say a-lot.
 
Focusing strictly on the 4 core CPU's in question, and, reviewing what Haswell from 2013 vs SkyLake on the same CPU speed, and, pitted with the same video card solution in both where both equally run Pcie3, there is some good info to evaluate.
 
Being Kay/Coffee are from the a refresh and basically the same die, Skylake can be shown to either run short, or, prove its all a dog and pony show for the entire series and while they are at it, bow to the almighty MS W10 war machine.
 
 In that, Intel may have squirted just a fraction of a hair more of their infamous CPU to cap thermal compound, and/or specified just a smidgen more of the RTV type compound that mounts the cap to the wafer over the die in 6700K knowing what was coming (MS announcements in 2015 about support).
 
It's easy to play such games so in the final analysis the primary bumper crop markets, rake it in.   cept in my case?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxYvzVxJtYM
 
 
 
I will lay it out for the folks who may not understand...  There isn't a little old lady in Singapore or any other Intel manufacture facility who is squirting thermal compound on the die to connect to the underside of the cap on a CPU, nor is that true of the sealant used between the cap and the IC wafer which can and does affect the distance between the underside of the metal cap and the CPU die. That is all computer controlled and Intel can very easily adjust the thermal limitations which defines the clocking properties of any release by simply fine adjusting the automated manufacturing system that produces a CPU.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-07-2017 at 10:40pm
This build is done, its a joke for someone like myself running Haswell @ 4.75GHz and DDR3 2400 @ C9
 
....paraphrasing right down to brass tacks about DDR4 and any processor to date above Haswell if the Haswell is running 4.4GHz or higher
 
 
 
Prepar3D results, on 2560x1600 monitor, and also on the LG full UHD: video card rules, 6700k with DDR4 3200 C14 did NOTHING for Flightsim when compared to Haswell 4.7GHz DDR3 2400 C9 with the same 1070 video card... nothing
 
 
The video card upgrade above a 780GTX is good and works, more so for P3D not FSX, only because it adds support for higher resolution, higher filtering and better support for advanced lighting, but if you already have a HASWELL processor running 4.4-4.8GHz and want to stay on Windows 7..  DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON A NEW SYSTEM, spend the money on the new video card!
 
Folks who rave about Sky/Kay/Coff Lake most likely came from SandyBridge or lower and also went with a 900+ series video card as compared to their last build.
 
I delidded SkyLake, ran it against my Haswell 4.75-4.75 with memory speed of DDR3 2400 C9 and memory speed 3200 @ C14 with the same video card in the system
 
Someone tell me if this 2000 purchase, was worth it
 
Haswell 4.75GHz DDR3 2400 C9 on GTX 780: 3DMark06 - 39637
 
Haswell 4.75GHz DDR3 2400 C9 on GTX 1070: 3DMark06 - 40314
 
SkyLake @ 4.75GHz DDR4 3200 C14  on GTX1070: 3DMark 06: 44112
 
 
I got 4500pts for 2000 dollars and the SkyLake system has a PCIe R400 OCZ drive
 
 
Last time I spent 2 grand, I got 18000pts
 
 
So... I tested FIRESTRIKE 3DMark
 
Haswell 4.75GHz DDR3 2400 C9 on GTX 780: 3DMark06 - 9987
 
Haswell 4.75GHz DDR3 2400 C9 on GTX 1070: 3DMark06 - 13739
 
SkyLake @ 4.75GHz DDR4 3200 C14  on GTX 1070: 14021
 
 
Results speak for themselves
 
about 4000pts for 2000 dollars on a new platform?...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxYvzVxJtYM
 
 
Seriously
 
 
 
Your memory latency RULES and with DDR3 2400 C9 I get a latency of 38.9. With DDR4 3200 CL14 I get a latency of 47.4 with just about the same READ and WRITE speed
 
 
 
 
ALSO, you DONT NEED a Windows disk burned with USB drivers..  that's nearly false, ASSUMING the board has USB2 ports and USB configuration settings for mouse and keyboard, use USB2 ports for keyboard and mouse
 
Then, all you have to do is go into the BIOS for the new board, click the BOOT menu, scroll down and make the following changes:
 
SECURE BOOT:  OS TYPE: > Dropdown   OTHER OS
 
CSM COMPATIBILITY SUPPORT:  BOOT DEVICE CONTROL:  Legacy OPROM Only (Can be switched back to EUFI and Legacy OPROM after Windows 7 AND the drivers are installed)
 
USB CONFIGURATION: EMULATE MOUSE AND KEYBOARD> ENABLED (Can be switched back to DISABLED after Windows 7 AND the drivers are installed)
 
When Windows 7 install starts and you pass the NEXT>I AGREE screen, select the CUSTOM INSTALL METHOD
 
 
Make sure you have the latest motherboard drivers on a DVD, after they are installed in Windows everything works fine...   these motherboard companies are in cahoots with MS. These features are in all the BIOS's, but you must know what to change in order to get Windows 7 installed without a voodoo doctor.
 
 
 
After Windows is installed:
 
Always start with disabling UAC, reboot..  then the CHIPSET DRIVER, reboot, USB drivers, reboot.
 
IF you slipstream a Windows 7 install disk with all the Windows updates first, this next section can be ignored
 
NOTE: INTEL RST and other advanced drivers can not be installed until Windows Update installs and updates NET Framework to 4- 4.x. Install all your drivers that do not need advanced NET support, then run Windows Update and get all your updates...   after NET 4.x is installed
 
LAST - IMPORTANT: New Motherboards: MAKE SURE INTEL RST is enabled in the BIOS storage controller section before installing this driver.. not AHCI: INTEL RAPID TRANSPORT <--- this is new with the newer boards
 
Then install Intel RST Drivers
 
 
BOOM - DONE, no drivers needed, no USB stick, No rebuild of Windows,.... no stop gap game, and, if you properly create the OS partition before installing Windows and don't allow it to automatically be created, no BS 100MB partition or BitLocker crap
 
 
RECAP: If you are already on Haswell 4770K or above and running 4.4-4.8GHz on decent DDR3 memory, upgrade the video card, upgrade the storage system, but for gods sake DONT throw away the rest of the system regardless of staying on Windows7 or not..  its NOT worth it.
 
 
Parts are all going back, except the video card, the LG 43 inch UHD monitor, and, the OCZ RD400 PCIe .. the rest is a waste of money and that goes for Kaybe/Coffee
 
(and no, I wont eat the de-lidded 6700K..  dropped temps 25c on load doing it my way by polishing the inside of the cap, not the internet way, but, I also know how to reseal so it doesn't look modified.. someone else will get a really nice processor so I don't feel quilt LOL)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2017 at 6:38am
The 6700K didn't wanna play higher than 4.75GHz with memory @ 3200 C14 or are you still working on that?
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2017 at 6:48am
Really useful to have these results. Thumbs Up

So this shows that 'clock for clock' the newer processors and DDR4 combination really aren't increasing efficiency and throughput that much, at least enough to offset the increased memory latency with DDR4? I don't think the DDR4 3600 CL15 I bought a few months ago would fare dramatically better, although that extra 400MHz at the same CL would help of course.

And for me it's not only the cost. A system rebuild takes me weeks to get everything re-installed, configured and running nicely - there's only so much that can be ported straight across from old to new. So I really don't want to do this unless it's worthwhile!

My original plan had been to see what next year turns out with a new Nvidia generation as I already have a 980 GTX. Of course it depends if that would outstrip my Haswell's ability to feed it but if the difference is like going from a 780 to 1080 it might be worth doing - there would a be a 4 year difference in tech at that point.


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I would be interested in hearing how high a clock you can get on 6700k too if you had that in mind. Is it reasonable to say that 4000 points or so would translate into a 10% FPS increase?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2017 at 6:24pm
Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:

The 6700K didn't wanna play higher than 4.75GHz with memory @ 3200 C14 or are you still working on that?
 
Not with the True Spirit 140 which is far smaller and only one fan as compared to the DH-15
 
But very impressive getting it to 4.75 on that cooler...  Had I gone with the DH I probably could have squeezed another 100 out of it the way I polish the inside of the cap and use the original Cool-lab-pro.
 
Thing is, it showed me what I wanted to know. Would it have been worth that cooler cost and working it out?  .. I keep seeing the vision of the nearly 2 grand (that's without the monitor) flashing back onto my credit card, I like that better. I saw nothing like I did with Haswell when I started working with that platform.
 
There was practically little difference between my 4 year old rig running the 1070 and the new setup running the same card, .. it just was not worth it.  The card, yes.. definitely for the later P3D releases but wouldn't be worth jack for FSX/SE  
 
The parts I am not keeping are getting shipped back by Friday, as I said..  someone is going to get a really nice 6700K able to run21c at idle and at or below 58c nailing it with AVX FPU instructions on default Intel speed/voltage , which no game or application would do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2017 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by robmw robmw wrote:

Really useful to have these results. Thumbs Up

So this shows that 'clock for clock' the newer processors and DDR4 combination really aren't increasing efficiency and throughput that much, at least enough to offset the increased memory latency with DDR4? I don't think the DDR4 3600 CL15 I bought a few months ago would fare dramatically better, although that extra 400MHz at the same CL would help of course.

And for me it's not only the cost. A system rebuild takes me weeks to get everything re-installed, configured and running nicely - there's only so much that can be ported straight across from old to new. So I really don't want to do this unless it's worthwhile!

My original plan had been to see what next year turns out with a new Nvidia generation as I already have a 980 GTX. Of course it depends if that would outstrip my Haswell's ability to feed it but if the difference is like going from a 780 to 1080 it might be worth doing - there would a be a 4 year difference in tech at that point.


 
 
The BEST benefit of the newer system is not the CPU or the memory, its the new native Intel RST support directly enabled in the BIOS. I was running disk tests and saw incredible file transfer and read speeds and I don't mean just between the SSD's.. the 2 mechanical drives too. The transfer and read write speeds between the 2 WD black drives was impressive, and of course between the PCIe (slot3) NVMe (I got the card type so it acts as a heatsink) was gob-smacking incredible, put my OCZ RevoDrive 480 in the dumpster.
 
If I was going to keep the rig it would have been solely for the data rate performance and nothing else.
 
I had to kick the snot out of the CPU to get the 3200 memory stable, it didn't like that speed. 6700K prefers under 3000. the later procs are said to deal with those speeds far better, but that also mean you deal with the MS circus too.
 
The 1070 runs the LG monitor at UHD 60Hz just fine but I also don't pile my sim with the 1000's of dollars of crazy scenery either.
 
It seems like nothing has changed since 2007 and what the newer hardware has allowed, I mean think about it, I have to have a 1080ti or (x2) to run a 60 dollar game that still basically looks like it did 10 years ago?  
 
I could get that if the appearance and primary systems at least looked and worked like something coded after 2012 but I am not spending nearly 2 grand (I could easily spend 4 just like back in 2007) to run that application. I get hobbies but at this point its getting far cheaper to setup a 100 inch curved screen with 2 high res projectors over buying 1 or 2 1000 dollar video cards and wacko priced processors/memory modules.  LOL
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-08-2017 at 6:53pm
Originally posted by Avidean Avidean wrote:

I would be interested in hearing how high a clock you can get on 6700k too if you had that in mind. Is it reasonable to say that 4000 points or so would translate into a 10% FPS increase?
 
I wouldn't translate that 4000pts into anything of value, 12000+, yes. The value of the card itself is in the 8GB of memory and far better core abilities for the lighting and other features I really think they shouldn't even be screwing with until they get into DX12, and that isn't going to happen anytime soon due to the age of the base ESP core.
 
I use 3DM06 because it is very similar to FSX/P3D in terms of the CPU/GPU use. Of course the card itself provides far better ability on its own, but the CPU/DDR4 memory combination don't stack up the same. There were minor benefits but the bottom line is that its far more practical to upgrade the video card on the older hardware as well as perhaps upgrade the storage tech, but I would not spend the exorbitant amount of money to upgrade everything. Haswell was worth that ball of wax...  PCIe 3.0 and delidded not hard to hit 4.7-4.8 on air and remain 24/7 stable for 4.5 years and going. On top of that LOW latency DDR3 2400 was available which the Haswell CPU had no problem running.
 
Perhaps the next platforms (after CoffeeLake) might be different. Since I don't play games and don't have any need for DX12 I am tickled pink and vey happy to remain on Windows 7 while everyone else grimaces and cringes at the thought of the next automatic Windows 10 Update LOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big-mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2017 at 10:39am
Nick, can you please advice me what to do?

My PC specs are:
Case=Bitfenix Shinobi Midi Tower
PSU=800W Tagan Piperock         8 years old
MB= MSI Z87-G43                     3years old
CPU=i5 4690k,fixed at 3,8gHz     3 ...     ...
Cooler=Scythe Mugen 4              3  ...    ...
GPU=Gainward GTX 780,3GB       3  ...    ...
RAM=8GB DDR3 Corsair CL9        3  ..    ...
3x300 GB WD Velociraptors          7  ...    ...
1x1TB WD Veloiraptor                  3  ...    ...

I now have the last possibility to buy new PC parts.
Private curcumstances will not allow me to buy a new PC after now.
I have 2000,-€ maximum.
I would really love to keep my PC,so that i have one,when parts of the next are broken or so,
because i will not be able to replace them in the future.
But with a new PC,i need also a new OS and i want to save money as possible.
I have P3Dv4 since two months and want to keep FSX-ACC also.
My FSX installation is on the 1TB V-Rap,P3D for testing on a 300GB V-Rap.
I use an 55"4K TV as monitor,but also have a (non connected)34"LG UltraWide Monitor.
What would you please suggest to do with 2000,-€?
I need a good and solid PC for P3D and FSX for the future(i know,there is no fututrproofed Pc;)).
I don`t use photosceneries and i have W10Pro and i`m happy with this OS.
I think,i need 2x1TB drives for Windows and Addons and one for P3D.
Perhaps i can use my 1TB WD V-Rap for FSX again and save the money for an additional 1TB drive for FSX.
I ask you,Nick,because i know and appreciate your advices,you helped me 10years ago with an i7 975 Extreme build so much.
Thank you for your time.
Mike




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote robmw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2017 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:


 
If I was going to keep the rig it would have been solely for the data rate performance and nothing else.
 
Originally posted by robmw robmw wrote:

Really useful to have these results. Thumbs Up

I was looking at the storage options for my current Z97 board, it's got M2 support but sadly limited to 10Gbs so I'd get no great benefit over SATA III, not like the new boards as you explain. Of course there is still PCIe SSD but I was a bit unlucky with the OCZ Revodrive SSD I had in my previous build (reliability issues) which was why I stuck to SATA this time round. To be honest everything is SSD except my backup and archive storage and it still feels quite fast.

I'll definitely be looking at what NVidia do next year though. Just glad my itch to see what new hardware might achieve has been scratched (by you LOL)




Strange...  I never had any issues with the Revo 480 other than can occasional driver that was no good.
 
I used the RD400 in PCIe slot 3 in the AIO plate, not in the M2 slots. By not using the M2 slots the card is better cooled, and, no issues losing SATA ports.
 
...SSD should never be trusted as secure. Any SSD that has mission critical on it (OS, installed apps, etc) should always have a mirror mechanical drive that backs everything on the SSD up.
 
Even SATA SSD is volatile.  I would never run a system without planning on duplicating the SSD's in the system on mechanical partitions.  
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2017 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:

The 6700K didn't wanna play higher than 4.75GHz with memory @ 3200 C14 or are you still working on that?
 
Not with the True Spirit 140 which is far smaller and only one fan as compared to the DH-15
 
But very impressive getting it to 4.75 on that cooler...  Had I gone with the DH I probably could have squeezed another 100 out of it the way I polish the inside of the cap and use the original Cool-lab-pro.
 
Thing is, it showed me what I wanted to know. Would it have been worth that cooler cost and working it out?  .. I keep seeing the vision of the nearly 2 grand (that's without the monitor) flashing back onto my credit card, I like that better. I saw nothing like I did with Haswell when I started working with that platform.
 
There was practically little difference between my 4 year old rig running the 1070 and the new setup running the same card, .. it just was not worth it.  The card, yes.. definitely for the later P3D releases but wouldn't be worth jack for FSX/SE  
 
The parts I am not keeping are getting shipped back by Friday, as I said..  someone is going to get a really nice 6700K able to run21c at idle and at or below 58c nailing it with AVX FPU instructions on default Intel speed/voltage , which no game or application would do.
 
 
I should have pointed out, my max test was run with HT enabled....  I wanted to see what it would do thermal wise with all the guns firing because I DO USE HT when I run engineering programs as well as video editing.
 
Without HT and with the DH cooler, and the delid job, I am sure I could have gotten the slug higher.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-09-2017 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by big-mike big-mike wrote:

Nick, can you please advice me what to do?



 
Mike you are on a i5, not i7.. and it doesn't look like you are clocking it, or clocking it very much.
 
In your case you may be better served upgrading the entire system so you get the default clocks of 4.0-4.2GHz without having to do much.
 
You need to decide if you are willing to move to Windows 10 x64 now or not. That will define if you go with the latest CPU or go with a 6700K or other Skylake.
 
You do need a better video card if you are running the latest P3D, if not or you don't intend to run P3D... don't bother.
 
What I can tell you is, you wont be getting any of the processors to run 4600+ without liquid cooling or deliding the processor.
 
I don't do liquid although I know many do.... to me something about liquid in a computer just doesn't make sense unless the company making the cooler will replace my system.
 
 
In your case you may wont to consider a new system and figure out if you want to deal with Windows10 now or later. W10 will run fine on Skylake but you will deal with MS issues for any processor higher on the totem pole
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big-mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-10-2017 at 9:53am
Thank you very much,Nick.
Which CPU and GPU would you suggest?
16GB RAM enough?
Mike
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Nick, you are running Windows 10 as a testing OS right? Have you found a way to prevent Windows Update from updating Nvidia display drivers?
Hans

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2017 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Fly happy Fly happy wrote:

Nick, you are running Windows 10 as a testing OS right? Have you found a way to prevent Windows Update from updating Nvidia display drivers?
 
 
Yes I do run Windows 10 as a 2nd boot OS for toying around. I found a way to obtain the "update" and install it clean without having the Windows 7 install removed.
 
No, I have not looked at the automated update and driver install system. I have not gone that far into it as of yet. The reason is, MS is constantly changing their methods and even reinstalls the entire OS for some updates.
 
The way I look at it is, by the time I have no choice but to move to W10 which probably wont be for some years, the way they are doing things will probably have changed and perhaps by then there will be simplistic solutions for such things, or, perhaps MS might start allowing such options due to public pressure like they did with Skylake.
 
Its not that important to me right now so spending time to figure out a workaround may result in that workaround being squashed by MS anyway.
 
I have to say, the setup I put together wasn't bad and the delidding of the processor was actually far easier that Haswell was. If I was going to completely commit to Windows 10 and had to buy a system I would probably have gone with KabyLake over CoffeeLake unless I intended to run 2 video cards.
 
CoffeeLake has a 40 lane version whereby if the correct motherboard is selected a true x16+x16 PCIe setup will run instead of the typical x8+x8 and most likely the 3-4 slots would be x8 if one is populated and x4+4x if all
 
Things like that have to be looked at with the fine print because the motherboards will shut off SATA ports, M.2, and other features as lanes are used up.
 
Another reason for Coffee is because from what I see it works far better with DDR4 3000+ memory. I did have some problems getting the memory running to spec with SkyLake.
 
In that past it wasn't that hard to run higher speed memory however I think the motherboard companies are making changes whereby the memory QVL sheet for the board is more important today than it was in the past. I would probably use that list next time.
 
If it wasn't for the latency difference between the two system (Haswell DDR3/Skylake DDR4 I may have considered hanging onto the setup but I think I can do much better later for the same money since the video card, RD400 OCZ and the 43 inch monitor work just as well in the Haswell right now.
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2017 at 10:25am
Okay, thanks. I have a laptop running Windows 10 and I thought I had found a workaround by a registry edit not to let Windows update the Nvidia display driver but that workaround has been disabled by who knows what, or never worked in the first place. It's not critical though since I do not run Flight Simulator on it, but pretty frustrating nontheless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2017 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

This build is done....6700k with DDR4 3200 C14 did NOTHING for Flightsim when compared to Haswell 4.7GHz DDR3 2400 C9 with the same 1070 video card... nothing


Sorry to hear about that for you Nick. I appreciate you taking one for the team and reporting back though. Beer

I was hoping that you would have gained more from the increased instructions per cycle that the newer CPUs are supposed to have. Looks like the RAM latency was the limiting factor though.

How is that new UHD monitor working out for you though? Wink

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ronski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-11-2017 at 9:40pm
Quote hans wrote:
 
Have you found a way to prevent Windows Update from updating Nvidia display drivers?
Hi Hans,
The registry hack never worked.  Seems Microsoft have offered a temporary solution to give us the option to block or hide a driver update.  There could be hope yet that some one there has more than one brain cell.   Not a Fix,  as the next version will get updated automatically.
You will have to repeat the process before each update and hide the newer Nvidia display.
 
Read through this (step 3)and download the Microsoft tool.
can't tell you if it works, 
 
Ron.
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NickN View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 12:51am
Originally posted by Ted striker Ted striker wrote:

Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

This build is done....6700k with DDR4 3200 C14 did NOTHING for Flightsim when compared to Haswell 4.7GHz DDR3 2400 C9 with the same 1070 video card... nothing



How is that new UHD monitor working out for you though? Wink




 
 
Love it..    I don't have to wear my glasses when looking at it.  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fly happy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 3:51am
Originally posted by Ronski Ronski wrote:


Quote hans wrote:
 
Have you found a way to prevent Windows Update from updating Nvidia display drivers?
Hi Hans,
The registry hack never worked.  Seems Microsoft have offered a temporary solution to give us the option to block or hide a driver update.  There could be hope yet that some one there has more than one brain cell.   Not a Fix,  as the next version will get updated automatically.
You will have to repeat the process before each update and hide the newer Nvidia display.
 
Read through this (step 3)and download the Microsoft tool.
can't tell you if it works, 
 
Ron.


Thanks Ron, I will check it out.
Hans

W7/64 Ultimate, FSX Gold, SB-E 3930K @ 4.7, Sabertooth X79, GTX580, 4x2GB G.Skill RipjawsZ @ 2133-9-11-10-28-1T, Corsair H110+Obsidian 900D,Seasonic P-1000, GEX, UTX, UT2, REX, S-Tech LC, NGX.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 4:25am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

Originally posted by Ted striker Ted striker wrote:

Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

This build is done....6700k with DDR4 3200 C14 did NOTHING for Flightsim when compared to Haswell 4.7GHz DDR3 2400 C9 with the same 1070 video card... nothing



How is that new UHD monitor working out for you though? Wink




 
 
Love it..    I don't have to wear my glasses when looking at it.  LOL
 
 
Addendum:  I work in the Adobe color space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_RGB_color_space (WAY ABOVE the ability of the LG 43 inch SRGB UHD monitor) for image and video production....   My NEC 30 inch wont be replaced anytime soon for that and I retain the monitor for that purpose, but I use the LG now for the low end (low end means NOT professional color space and calibration) SRGB web and games like FSX and PREPAR3D) renders since it includes 4x input with PIP in each quadrant, in other words I can run real time wall street results while surfing then net and watching Comcast TV and have P3D running at the same time.
 
God, where was this 10 years ago! Tongue
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 10:19am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

it includes 4x input with PIP in each quadrant, in other words I can run real time wall street results while surfing the net and watching Comcast TV and have P3D running at the same time.


That does sound nice. I might have to move my Sony TV up to the living room after all and get one of these LG monitors. I'll be watching the Thanksgiving sales.

Ted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote big-mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 11:30am
Originally posted by big-mike big-mike wrote:

Thank you very much,Nick.
Which CPU and GPU would you suggest?
16GB RAM enough?
Mike


Has nobody some suggestions?
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 9:49pm
Mike you have to make that call yourself and with your budget.
 
If you are on Windows 10 then look at the latest releases such as CoffeeLake and 1080ti. As for memory, the fastest on the lowest timing you can get but I would also download the motherboard QVL memory sheet and make sure it lists the memory on it, not the speed.. the actual memory manufacture number.
 
As for memory amount, 16G's should be fine but if you want future proof, 32G's would be better
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-12-2017 at 10:05pm
Originally posted by Ted striker Ted striker wrote:

Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

it includes 4x input with PIP in each quadrant, in other words I can run real time wall street results while surfing the net and watching Comcast TV and have P3D running at the same time.


That does sound nice. I might have to move my Sony TV up to the living room after all and get one of these LG monitors. I'll be watching the Thanksgiving sales.

Ted
 
Just remember this...   2 HDMi inputs are 60hz, the other 2 are 30hz, DisplayPort is 1.2+ and the USB-C is Thunderbolt rated, in other words..  the cables have to be rated as such and it didn't come with the USB-C Thunderbolt..  only 1 HDMi and 1 DisplayPort
 
The monitor updates through the USB-C port so to get firmware updates you must have the Thunderbolt rated USB-C cable, and, a computer that has USB-C output
 
I updated the monitor firmware while I had the z270 Mark1 board running (it had USB-C and 3.1)
 
Distance matters with these specs.. you cant run 12-16ft cables
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted striker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November-13-2017 at 10:16am
Originally posted by NickN NickN wrote:

The monitor updates through the USB-C port so to get firmware updates you must have the Thunderbolt rated USB-C cable, and, a computer that has USB-C output


This seems like a bizarre requirement to have the latest and greatest motherboard ports and cables just to update the monitor firmware. Sounds like I won't be getting this monitor in the near future. Thanks for the heads up on this.

How does P3D look and perform for you in full screen UHD on this LG monitor?

Ted

 
3770K @4.5Ghz, Noctua NH-C12P, Asus Z77-V Deluxe, Corsair 2133-9-11-10-27-2T, 780 GTX, Win7-64 on 128gb Intel 520 SSD, FSX on 256gb Intel 520 SSD, PC Power & Cooling 750W, Antec P193 case
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